Hke

[Ryu (JKD?)]

HKE
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I have mentioned that I didn't necessarily like grabbing the back of someone's head for HKE, but I am going to train it to see if I can get to that position a little safer and control better.
I need to get some friends to spar it since the judo guys probably won't
Who here works the headbutts, knees, elbows from the thai or dumog clinch? Anyone have any examples, tips, etc? I am thinking of maybe not relying on the straight blast to get in, but rather a regular grappler's clinch first, and THEN suddenly moving up to the neck. That way I already have control of the guy first hand.


Ryu

[Ryu (JKD?)]

This was something I put on KungFu online. I cut and pasted it here. Obviously the people here work HKE from the thai clinch....LOL sorry that sounded kinda dumb.


I have been working it a bit, and I think that grabbing the neck after a grappler's clinch is much easier (for me) to pull off. I can double up on a jab, clinch, and then suddenly move to the neck, and HKE, and then if I'm losing him I can duck under and go right back to clinching, pick up and slam, etc.
What do you think?

Ryu

[Paul Sharp]

Ryu,
I'm not sure if I understand the question. When I'm working my Clinch game I am looking for any opening, so if he leaves his head unprotected I'll sink a necktie, if his elbow comes out/up I'm going to sink my underhook and any time I get a chance I'll land HKE's. Since most of my training partners are pretty well versed in the Clinch, the only time I get a chance to hit is if I can get them to lose track of one of my arms or legs. In that micro-second I hit 'em. The thing about hitting them is..., now they have a arm loose as well, so you watch for a little return on your investment.

Again, I'm not sure if I understand the question, but that could just be my ADD kicking in...

-Paul Sharp

[Ryu (JKD?)]

Hi Paul,
Well I guess maybe it's almost a rhetorical question!

I was thinking that grabbing the neck for the PFS styled HKE is much easier (at least for me) by using a grappler's clinch and NOT a straightblast, and was wondering if anyone felt the same?
I've been working this a bit, and have found that I feel much more in control moving up to the neck from a clinch than I do straightblasting, and trying to grab it. There's definately return fire though Although I can get off at least 2 or 3 headbutts in a row sometimes.

Perhaps it's just common knowledge though. I'm getting back into my PFS stuff after years of grappling, maybe I'm behind a bit haha.

Ryu

[ReneH]

Hello! Ryu/Paul Sharp


Being a smaller guy and weighing about 185, I approach the clinch from a different perspective. My height and weight do not afford me the luxury of trading shots, especially the big guns. What you are doing may be very risky from the persepective of a streetfight. One has to equate so many variables into a streetfight, how many attackers, any weapons, etc, before commiting to the clinch. One other factor is that if you weigh significantly less than your attacker you have knowingly just entered his weight class. Meaning that you have given your attacker the advantage while in the clinch. There is a reason why all boxing events are showcased according to weight, and if I recall there was one instance, some years ago, where they tried to pair a small light guy against a heavyweight and it was disastrous. You just can't afford to recieve those shots from a heavier guy. Idea: get the biggest dude you can find and try clinching with him without the luxury of pain & destructions. Also, it is cool that you have decided to look into the PFS stuff again and while you are at it, check out Matt Thornton's stuff as well.

[Ryu (JKD?)]

Hi Rene!

Question:
Do you think a clinch is an effective way of neutralizing punching ability? Now obviously I don't want to trade hands with a guy much bigger with me and with skill. The way I usually train getting into the clinch is by sticking gloves on someone, having him try to hit me, and all I get to do is "hug" him I do this with the big boys too. I obviously want to stay away from the guy at first to dissect the situation (or can hopefully end it with a headbutt first if the guy is already starting out in trapping range)
If you can hip sweep a guy to the ground from the clinch (something judo has given me functional ability at doing ) you can stay up yourself and kick his head, run, etc.
What do you think?

Ryu

[ReneH]

A suggestion for you:

One of the ways we train the stuff from then clinch is by having both guys use the RedMan chest gear(one guy wears headgear)and one who does not. Both of you will wear bag gloves, not 16oz gloves just bag gloves.

Your partner, wearing the chest guard+headgear, attacks you and your job is to intercept/destroy whatever he throws at you. Just be careful when destroying punches on your partner. The moment you enter, start the clinch. Let's see what really happens here! If your clinch isn't that great, we'll you'll eat some good punches and knees to the ribs! This is an excellent way to deal with the pressure, resistance, strenght, tenacity, etc, that your attcker has mustered against you. Both of you can practice the knees and punches with impunity. Just remeber, that everytime you get tagged on the "ribs", "stomach" those are instances where you could have been taken down and probably lost the fight. There are other ways of training this, just one little way of showing you. Tell me how it goes.