TaeKwonDo

[SD fma]

What an explosion of replies! How quick people are to trash TKD!

Yes, there are terrible TKD fighters that get their black belt in 2 yrs and have a false sense of security in the area of self defense/street fighting (they walk around with their chests out and arms rigid-you've all seen the type). I must note that an FMA classmate of mine took traditional TKD, earned his 1st degree after SIX years of hard training, and has applied his TKD when we spar kuntao. In FMA, he is improving with flowing to the different ranges-it still is challenging for him yet he is improving. I have noted that his kicking skills are very effective at the striking range and he can hold his own. Now, is TKD a bad martial art? I say no. Is it limited? Depending on how it is taught and how it is learned. The other ranges of fighting must be addressed to have a legitimate sense of security. Get kicked by a TKD guy or a Muay Thai guy and they both can hurt you. But clearly, it is the practitioner behind the art and not the art itself.

You all know that some fighters are just better than others on any given day......

SD fma

[sidder]

Good insights Yella Tiger!

[dwoolman]

Most of these replies are what I expected to hear but I'd just like to point out that we actually do apply groundwork in my TKD.
Contary to what some of you may think I'm not a little kid who does not know anything about real fighting etc but apart from that....thanx for replies!

[Szczepankiewicz]

Here's one for ya:

Take Joe, and let him train in TKD for two years. He works out hard and takes as many lessons as he can.

What rank does he achieve at the end of a two year period?

What does that rank mean?

How good is Joe at sport fighting?

How good is Joe at self-defense?

Now go back in time two years, and instead of TKD, Joe decides to pursue BJJ. Ask the same questions in another two years.

Keep doing this until you find the most efficeint/effective art?


My point is that there are multiple factors concerning the "usefulness" of a martial art.

First, what is your primary motivation for training in Martial Arts?
What martial styles are available to learn?
Can you afford it?
Is there a good teacher accessable?
Is there a good environment to train in?

There is nothing wrong with taking TKD, if you have the time and determination to make something out of it. So what if it only takes two years to reach black belt?

What does a black belt signify? To most non-artists a black belt means that your an indestructable bad ass. Even to some artists it means this... that false sense of security. But to most who understand, it just means you are a "master of the basics". Once you achieve a BB, then you really start to understand what you have been studying.

I guess a good test of a martial art form would be to measure a one year period. Take an average student who has been studying an "average" number of times over the course of a year and subject that student to a battery of tests.

I would suspect that your average TKD student would be able to fend off a few simple grabs and throw some basic strikes.
But what happens when you get them down, on the ground? Game over.

Then take a BJJ student who has been working the same amount of time. They would handle grappling well, but what about a striker who won't stand still or provide an opportunity for a "takedown". You say that 95% of fights go to the ground? Well, welcome to the other 5%. In a "self defense" situation going toe to toe isn't always going to happen. So how does our BJJ stylist do?

Now take any other martial art form, with a cross section of students and see what happens?

I guess that's why everyone cross-trains now days eh?

SZ

P.S. Sorry for the FCC marathon post....

[mild7]

I hear all this talk about bad teachers, not taught the right way etc.....

It's time ppl started thinking, 'bad me'. It's your responsibility to take your art to a higher level, of course instruction does play a part but it's simple things like good sparring partners that make the difference in your game.

As for TKD being not applicable for selfdefense, nothing truly is. It's mostly a case of speculation. Thinking on how to apply your skills, your own honest research.

Also the difference between ITF and WTF tkd must be pointed out. One is fullcontact one is not. Though WTF has limitations(no punches almost, no low kicks) and is focusing on a range of fighting(high kicks) that is'nt too practical it still develops fighting spirit and mental toughness which is perhaps more important than anything else.

So who knows, who cares. Is TKD bad, is TKD good noone can really say. As for me, I just think that TaiKwanDoe is the bestest and I don't care what you'all think. My father said so. I'm off to practice my jumping hook-kicks over my horse.

[J.K.]

MILD7

Hey just out of curiousity - have you ever studied any other MA's? Are you strictly TKD or do you study other Korean arts. I hear Hepkito has some practical ground work - although I've never witnessed the art in action.

[mild7]

hi J.K!

Actually, I am a Judo player. I live/breathe/sleep Judo. Am looking into international competition in the future, if I make it big I may let you know my true identity. Otherwise I'll remain anonymous......
As a youth though I started in TKD. I went on to get 1st Dan(ITF) but also competed in WTF competitions. I dabbled in a little Aikido and Ninjutsu for a laugh, but it was'nt my cup of tea.
From my experiences I like fullcontact arts the best. Had a stint as a boxer as well which was great.

Thing about TKD I must mention is that I liked WTF TKD. Because it was fullcontact. The feeling you get before you enter the boxing ring, Judo mat for comp, it is the same for WTF tkd. Ask any serious WTF competitor. The guys do get psyched to fight, I believe this mental conditioning itself makes TKD a worthwhile art if one really likes it.

I've seen Hapkido. There is no ground fighting, not in a Sambo/Judo/BJJ/wrestling sense. To me it seems like hardcore Aikido(their grappling). Hard stuff, but groundfighting/clinchfighting it certainly is'nt.

[YeLLa-TiGeR]

mild7, I dont know about the same feeling with TKD and other combat sports. In my PERSONAL experience, competiting never got my nerves up, but even boxing, or doing Muay Thai for the first time made me more nervous than I ever have. When I fight this early Dec, I will see how my nerves were b4 my fight.

But I am willing to be I will be 1000x more nervous than I ever was in TKD.

btw in TKD, fighting with a korean in competition was the scariest for most people! LOL

[Maxximus]

YT,
Before my first thai fight I was scared $hitless

[Szczepankiewicz]

Mild 7- Are you anywhere in the Western US? Does your Judo competition bring you to Boise, Pocatello, or Salt Lake City?


J.K.- I like that "Hepkito", all the "hep-cats" take "hepkito"?

Maxximus- if you are scared poopless, then no-one can knock the poop out of you.

[mild7]

Szczepankiewicz,
nope, I'm a european-based player. But I do suppose if I was in the states I'm move west, I think the Judo is much stronger there.

Yella-tiger,
I was referring to the 'going up against the Korean' type! Unlike in Judo(where the europeans dominate), the natives of TKD(the Koreans) are really the best and most psycho at it. I guess the adrenaline/fear/psyched feeling is dependent on the level of competition.

Maxximus,
At least you know the real feeling of a fight. Most ppl think it's just like in the movies where ppl go in and kick the crap out of 5 ppl, walk out the bar and smoke a joint.
In fullcontact competition it's different, you feel like smoking a joint before you step in the ring..

[sidder]

Anyway, tae kwon do sucks!

[mild7]

Not WTF though.

[ronin warrior]

Modern tkd is perfect for the kids.
It teaches them strong morale values, based on the hwarangdo,
allows them to focus their energy on perfecting kicks - as few would doubt are very hard to perfect do to the makeup of the human body. Competitions give them a safe way to practice their skills, and strive for something.

When it comes down to actual combat, modern TKD is extremly impractical. A kick above the waste could mean disastor. Most fights end with one technique - the sucker punch. Most TKD fighters can't deal with a hand strike to the head because the WTF doesn't allow it. Modern TKD fighters are too constricted by their own rules to apply TKD effectivly in a street situation. It fails to incorporate in sparring the use of knees, elbows, pushing and shoving, low kicks, strikes to vital areas, sweeps, throws, stand-up grappling, and ground fighting.

For adults who are seeking to truly learn combat, TKD just doesn't cut it. I am a firm believer in the fact that the fighters and not the styles will determine the outcome of a fight, but in the case of modern TKD, there is just too much "foul play" that isn't incorporated in daily training.

[sidder]

Yep.