Tao kwon do

[Sphinx]

just wonderin if there are different styles of tao kwon do because there are alot of different styles of kung fu. Whishi is best?

The reason that ask is becaus ei used to do tkd when i was alot younger and i got pretty far. i quit because there was no big mad flying kicks that i knew of or had been taught at the time (i had watched alot of films and saw high kicks).
Then about 6 years on two days ago i spoke to someone and he showed me loads of high spinning kicks. So is there differnt styles of it is this just training method of my old teacher. Also i read that one of the first things that people get shown is to pull the opponent in and kick him in the ribs, i was never ever shown this.

Is tkd good to mix with jun fan/jkd.

Also how good is shoalin kung fu and how does that compare to jun fan jkd? is it good to mix or are they really similar?

last question whats a haymaker punch?

[Great Sage]

Actually, there are several Tae Kwon Do styles, though not nearly as many as kung-fu. Here are just a few: Oh Do Kwan, Ji Do Kwan, Muk Do Kwan etc...

Tae Kwon Do is ideal for developing kicking, balancing and power from the hips. In the old days, kung-fu fighters would learn Tae Kwon Do to compliment their hand techniques because kung-fu kicks lacked great "snapping" power. Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan among other kung-fu stars have done the same.

[ryanhall]

A haymaker is a roundhouse rear hand punch that is thrown at the head with all the body's weight behind it. It is a common sucker punch.

[Sphinx]

which one is the best and which one has a lot of high kicks. What about shoalin and does shoalin mix with jkd.

[ryanhall]

JKD does not utilize high kicks. Tae Kwon Do and Shaolin Gung Fu do. Jeet Kune Do, when taught properly, is geared towards functionality in combat--the other two are not. Jeet Kune Do is much better for the physical component of self defense. Tae Kwon Do and Shaolin are essentially useless. If you want art, just pick one of the flashy ones. If you want functionality, go with Jeet Kune Do.

[Great Sage]

Originally posted by ryanhall
JKD does not utilize high kicks. Tae Kwon Do and Shaolin Gung Fu do. Jeet Kune Do, when taught properly, is geared towards functionality in combat--the other two are not. Jeet Kune Do is much better for the physical component of self defense. Tae Kwon Do and Shaolin are essentially useless. If you want art, just pick one of the flashy ones. If you want functionality, go with Jeet Kune Do.

Woah... Ho... What have we got here? Excuse me Ryan, but unless you've studied and applied Tae Kwon Do or Shaolin in REAL combat, I don't think it's a fair assessment to say they're useless... I for one, am a Tae Kwon Do stylist, REAL Tae Kwon Do, not the stuff you can buy, and it has helped me in whatever situation arises. As for Shaolin gung-fu, only a few styles use legs and unless you understand the scope of Shaolin, you are in no position to judge that either. I've studied Northern Sil Lum Fist, a Shaolin style that uses a lot of grappling similar to judo, and it's applications easy and functional.

I've been saying all along, the JKD of today is merely a collaboration of different arts, not necessarily the same JKD taught by Bruce Lee... I don't care what anyone says, it's not. I do agree that JKD is functional, but I also believe that every art has it's use.

[ryanhall]

Allow me to modify my statement. Tae Kwon Do is not a legitimate form of personal protection or unarmed combat for 99.99999% of the earth's population. High kicks are inadvisable for many reasons that I have stated more times than I care to count. A low guard, deep stance, unrealistic training, bad sparring, and punching with no power does not a good system make. This is not to say that Tae Kwon Do is useless in general. It will make you faster, more flexible, and maybe even a little stronger. However, it is not a sound art for realistic self defense. Period. As for Shaolin kung fu--there are a bazillion styles--I feel the same way. Can anyone make a serious arguement for the efficacy of the Crane stance or any of the other ten thousand ways they pose? I doubt it. A couple years ago, I ran into a guy who was really into all this Shaolin Long Fist type stuff. He actually believed in dim mak and all of that. To get to the point, we had a disagreement about the combat practicality of most kung fu (it's obvious who held which viewpoint). Long story short, we sparred, he got a quite a bit battered, and we called it a draw. Trying to hit with the back of your wrist, as he found out, is not as helpful as one might think. Up to that point, I had never run into ANYBODY who could make more excuses for why he was losing so badly. Evidently, I was cheating.

[Szczepankiewicz]

After talking to you at length on internet forums Ryan, I would wholeheartedly agree that you must have been cheating somehow. It seems to be ingrained in your personality.

In Kantan Kyo, we have one, and only one strike that you can use the back of your wrist to srike with .

Place your index, middle finger and thumb together, and hold them together while you bend them inside to your forearm.

This flexes a tendon on the back and inside of your wrist. The flexed tendon is the point of impact. With this you can break a board.

It is a very close in strike with very limited use. But it can be handy to know.

As for use in sparring, it's more of a hard escape from a hold or a nice and nasty uppercut. I have personally never used it in sparring. Maybe I should try it out...?



Spanky

[platinum_angel]

Originally posted by Szczepankiewicz
After talking to you at length on internet forums Ryan, I would wholeheartedly agree that you must have been cheating somehow. It seems to be ingrained in your personality.

In Kantan Kyo, we have one, and only one strike that you can use the back of your wrist to srike with .

Place your index, middle finger and thumb together, and hold them together while you bend them inside to your forearm.

This flexes a tendon on the back and inside of your wrist. The flexed tendon is the point of impact. With this you can break a board.

It is a very close in strike with very limited use. But it can be handy to know.

As for use in sparring, it's more of a hard escape from a hold or a nice and nasty uppercut. I have personally never used it in sparring. Maybe I should try it out...?
Spanky

thats the exact thing i did in korotty lol the first time they taught me i decided i wouldn't use it.

[eXcessiveForce]

If you are looking for Taekwondo, you need to find a good songahm TKD school. ATA in the USA songahm TKD Federation in south america and World Traditional Taekwondo Union in the rest of the world.


Songahm TKD has the full compliment of TKD kicks and strikes. as well as BJJ for ground fighting. Weapons work from many different arts. And they often are certified to teach Krav Maga as well.

The trick is finding a good instructor. As far as ITF and WTF are concerned I would stay away from them. When I trained in them they were largely taught with major flaws in technique and strategy.



Ryan hates TKD so you really can't expect anything good words from him if you want info about TKD. I have found TKD and JKD work very well together. I have found TKD if trained properly works very well by itself. But it is difficult to find an instructor that knows how to teach it properly.


As far as hitting with the back of the wrists. that is called an OX jaw and it is the hardest striking surface in the lower arm. They can be effective when thrown properly. I like them for a palm block to stop a front snap kick and then bring it up hard under the chin. it's a good set up for a straight blast.

[ryanhall]

There's no need to get testy. I don't hate TKD. I just don't view it as an effective method of self defense. The fact that you mention Songam TKD (TKD+a variety of other arts/systems) as the only worthwhile brand only serves to illustrate my point. If TKD was fine, it would not be necessary to modify it so radically. As far as the back of the wrist goes, why not just use the heel of the palm? There is MUCH more power behind a palm heel.

[eXcessiveForce]

I'm not testy, I just think that you should check out a school and see what the instructor has to offer.

To say TKD is not effective is just silly. As a system it is just fine. It may not be taught well most of the time including songahm instructors but the system is still decent. TKD means hand foot way. In other words learning the best way to use the hands and feet.

KIMO was in TKD and he hurt gracie really well in one of the first UFC's. he may have lost because of his silly korean braid but gracie couldn't continue. so TKD can be just as effective as BJJ.

We have had this conversation before about TKD so i'm not going to rehash.


Well since TKD is a created art it only makes sense that they would add to it over time. TKD was created of all fighting system in korea.


But since songahm TKD is the largest TKD group in the world it is up to them how they train it. Besides it sells well.


Anyway, I just think that of the people on this board if someone has questions about TKD you will tell them the system is worthless. I would tell them check out the school and see for themselves.

Hell chuck norris took his first lesson from the founder of Songahm TKD. And some people consider chuck a decent fighter.


There are lousy JKD instructors out there too. Hell the JKD school here doesn't spar. I'd prefer to go to a TKD school and get hit then play kick pads all day and say I'm a JKD guy.

just a thought.

[ryanhall]

There are lousy JKD instructors out there too. Hell the JKD school here doesn't spar. I'd prefer to go to a TKD school and get hit then play kick pads all day and say I'm a JKD guy.

I absolutely agree with you. Actually, much of the JKD world is in sad shape. Soon we'll be seeing strip mall JKD schools, it seems.

To say TKD is not effective is just silly. As a system it is just fine. It may not be taught well most of the time including songahm instructors but the system is still decent. TKD means hand foot way. In other words learning the best way to use the hands and feet.

The fact that I do not favor TKD notwithstanding, I have to agree that it is taught very poorly. I do not form my opinion on conjecture and hearsay alone, I assure you. It means "The way of hand and foot fighting," I believe. It may use the identifier "the," but I disagree that it is THE way. I much prefer other methods. However, in the future, I will withhold my own well-known opinion on TKD in favor of getting some input from other forum members.

[Great Sage]

Ryan... You know it's quite alright if you feel a certain way about TKD. You are entitled to your opinion based on personal experiences... I DO NOT refute that a lot of TKD schools out there are crap-o-la. For example, having learned kung-fu, karate and TKD... I personally feel TKD is better for me. Here's why.

Since I was 8 my father and I have been training in TKD. However, as I got older, I began to dislike TKD because it seemed so normal... so I began taking Japanese Karate which utitlized very low stances, not comfortable... Later in life, I enrolled in Seven Star Praying Mantis combined with Northern Sil Lum — Shaolin. While the Shaolin grappling techniques were good, the fighting applications were slow and unrealistic. A lot of wasted energy was needed for classical movements. In the end I began training in TKD again and found an inner realization that I was very comfortable with it and it suited my needs. It's a simple but complete system in itself.

[Szczepankiewicz]

To say TKD is not effective is just silly

I also stipulate that a group of grown men arguing the same topics over and over again is also just silly.

But it helps pass the time.


Ryan,

Why don't you just palm heel? Well shite son, why don't you just shoot 'im and get on with it?

To do an effective palm heel you need x amount of space and a certain angle of attack to be available. To execute the Ox Bow (or Chicken Neck as we call it) there is almost no space requirement, and the angle of attack to perform it effectively is perfect for an uppercut. So not only do I have a screwdriver in my toolbox, I have a small variety of different screwdrivers.

You sound like some of our Greenies. Why don't you just punch em in the nose.....?

------

As for TKD being effective for self defense, in my opinion it lacks two of the fundamental factors for SD training. Grappling and adrenalin management.

If your system has strikes or other moves that are ineffective for SD and you KNOW this, yet continue to teach all of them in the pretext of SD, then you are not only doing your art a disservice, you are doing your students a disservice.

Spanky