Do people love to hate JKD?

[JKDude]

It seems that lots of people (not just you, KingDon) feel a need to ride JKD for being just a philosophy, lacking cohesion, being wannabe Lee etc. What do ya'll think?

Let's make this the JKD thread to end all JKD threads!!!

[BlackSnow]

The philosophy on which jeet kun do is based sounds just about to right me. Using a mix of all kind of martial arts techniques rather than limit yourself to one style is the right philosophy if you talk about real (street, defending yourself, etc) fights. I always wondering myself the same thing, why limiting? Therefore, I don't love to hate Jeet Kun Do. However, I am not saying this is the perfect style because moves of human still are unpredictable in spite of the basics moves (for which no training is necessary) like punching, grabbling, etc. But I do think Jeet Kun Do is one of the first steps to make a style to be perfect. B.S.

[Kingston]

Originally posted by JKDude
Let's make this the JKD thread to end all JKD threads!!!

even the good ones? ah darn

i dont think many people like to hate on JKD.....alot of people do like to argue about the "little things" concerning JKD though.

"JKD means intercepting fists so it must be this", "no its not that its this", "your both wrong its whatever you make it", ya but if it was that, why did bruce write this?"

i think this mite have something to with with bruces constantly changing ideas, as well as the constant evolution of JKD, people get very confused.

people dont love to hate JKD, people love to hate the unimportant things about JKD.

personaly i think bruce lee is a little over-rated. he was a good martial artist, but compared to some of the other founders of martial arts, he doesn't seem quite so great.

JKD was a "work in progress" that was cut short when bruce died, and then left to his students to continue the evolution. JKD claims to have all the answers, i think thats why some like to find fualt in it.

i would like to see what some people think about this agree dissagree?

[sikal]

Originally posted by Kingston
personaly i think bruce lee is a little over-rated. he was a good martial artist, but compared to some of the other founders of martial arts, he doesn't seem quite so great.

Here's something I put on another board about this (strange how these things tend to pop up simultaneously).


"Any man whose errors take ten years to correct is quite a man." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer, speaking of Albert Einstein

I think this can also, tangentially, be applied to Bruce. He only lived 33 years. He was only in the US for 12 years. He was only in the public martial arts eye for 11 years. He was only in the general public eye (as an actor) for 9 years. And yet, 30 years after his death, there's still a boat load of discussion about him and his impact on the martial arts world is still evident. That rivals the accomplishments of a lot of other legends.

Is *all* the hype true? Probably not. It rarely is.

From everything I've read and heard, I've gotten the impression that Bruce was just a man, a man with faults -- same with any other human; but he was a very impressive martial artist and fighter.

Here's what Dan Inosanto said about Bruce at a seminar (to the best of my recollection):

When Bruce first got to the States and started telling everyone they were doing things wrong, we all thought, "Great! Another young punk with a chip on his shoulder that someone'll have to knock off."

He wasn't the first. Ever so often, a new "legend" would show up from Japan or China or Thailand or somewhere else. And he'd start telling everyone that they were wasting their time; until someone knocked him down a peg or two.

The difference between Bruce and the rest we'd seen, though, was that Bruce could, and did, back up everything he claimed.

[Kingston]

Originally posted by sikal


Here's something I put on another board about this (strange how these things tend to pop up simultaneously).


"Any man whose errors take ten years to correct is quite a man." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer, speaking of Albert Einstein

I think this can also, tangentially, be applied to Bruce. He only lived 33 years. He was only in the US for 12 years. He was only in the public martial arts eye for 11 years. He was only in the general public eye (as an actor) for 9 years. And yet, 30 years after his death, there's still a boat load of discussion about him and his impact on the martial arts world is still evident. That rivals the accomplishments of a lot of other legends.

Is *all* the hype true? Probably not. It rarely is.

From everything I've read and heard, I've gotten the impression that Bruce was just a man, a man with faults -- same with any other human; but he was a very impressive martial artist and fighter.

Here's what Dan Inosanto said about Bruce at a seminar (to the best of my recollection):

good point.

also alot of those "founders" are surrounded in legend, myth, hype, whatever you want to call it. Stuff like "he learned it from a dragon", type stuff.

[bigknuckle]

hey...DONT MAKE FUN OF CULTURES DRAGONS WERE REAL
JUST LIKE MAGIC AND JESUS AND THE JESUS KNIGHTS.

jihad anyone?

[JKDude]

JKD RECIPE:

1 take wing chun, boxing, savate, wrestling, muay thai, silat, pekiti tirsia, escrima, tai chi, aikido, dumog, and about a dozen other arts.

2 Mix everything with physics, anatomy, and situational characteristics.

3 Throw in philosophy if you really feel like it.
(IMPORTANT: economy of motion and attack interception are not philosophies, they are tactics, and can be executed using any art)

4 Get beaten up

5 Beat someone up

NOTE: If step 4 becomes a nuisance, repeat steps 1 and 2 until step 5 is like taking candy from a baby.

PS. Always steal shit from other arts.

[bigknuckle]

over simplification of ur formula man...

1. learn from everything
2. try everything
3. revise mistakes and don't maek them again (application)
4. explore more

is this lol feg?

[Bruce_Fan]

Hey JKD dude:

I think people try to undermine or minimize JKD by making it look like it's a lot of hype.
Dan Inosanto has spent his whole life in Martial Arts and he certainly does not think so. That says a lot!

On the other hand, some people have a problem with people idolizing Bruce Lee. This seems to piss them off. People seem to get on defensive as far as admitting to admiring Bruce Lee.

Well, is it that different than idolizing/admiring Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, Elway, Montana, and etc?????
Personally, Magic Johnson is one of my sports idols.

On the other hand, so many people idolize the heck out of Babe Ruth and make him into this incredible icon. They even call this fat tub of @#$@ the greatest Athlete of the century. LOL
To me, that's strange!
(I don't care how many homeruns he hit!)

So people want to put JKD And Bruce down? F*** Them! :-)

------------
By the way, as far as your recipe:
You could spend a lot of years doing that, but Bruce has already done the Leg work for ya. You can have a pretty good idea of what's the best of those arts to take.



Bruce_Fan

[eXcessiveForce]

Idolizing Bruce is cliche, and that is why people hate JKD. I have never been a Bruce fan. I never really thought much of him. First time I read Tao of JKD I damn near threw the book away and thought it was one of the worst books ever written.

Later I figured out what he was trying to say. I still don't think it was written all that well but that was beside the point. I actually learned that the book said exactly what I was trying to teach my students just in words that didn't mean anything to me. "Thusness" and so on.

But I hated guys who would come to my school. Tell me they were going to be Bruce Lee and that they were already on there way and just wanted me to help them get there a little faster.

Know I own lots of books about Bruce and his ideas. But I don't idolize Bruce. But I do dislike people who think they are Bruce Lee and be sheer mention of his name think they deserve the respect someone would show Bruce himself.


Face it no one is that great. Everyone has flaws. Your Idols point to those area's of yourself that are lacking.

[sikal]

Yup. I don't idolize anyone. I respect and admire people. Look to people as role models. But I don't idolize.

Only person I ever idolized was my uncle. When I was 15, he took a swan dive off the pedestal I had put him on; he blew his brains out in a hotel room.

It tore me up. Took me about 5 years to fully get all the grief worked out of my system.

Since then, I don't idolize people. They all have failings. I admire people for their strengths and I have role models. But I don't want to be anyone but me.

I have a friend named Joe Lansdale. Joe is an accomplished, award-winning author. He now primarily writes mysteries, but he used to write horror and won the Bram Stoker award 4 times. I read a comment where a critic called Joe the "Stephen King of East Texas." I mentioned this to Joe. Joe's response was, "Yeah. I've seen that. I know it was meant as a compliment so that's how I take it. I know Stephen. He's a good guy and a good writer. But I don't want to be him. I want to be Joe Lansdale."

That sums it up in my book.

I think Bruce was a very good martial artist. I think he was a mediocre actor. I think he was ahead of his time in some ways. I think he had some very positive influences on the martial arts. More to the point, I think that his influence on certain people has had a major impact on the martial arts.

But, like my uncle, Bruce was just a man. As such, he had faults. I don't think we should idolize him for his strengths any more than we should demonize him for his faults.

I respect him for the man he was and I admire him for what he accomplished in his short life.

Mike

[Typhoon]

I think Bruce Lee was a smart man and a great matial arts. But he idolizing him for it and wantign to become just liek him or anyoen what that fact is jsut wrong! You cant become someone you can only learn and strengthen yourself. I think the martial art that Bruce Lee made up was for himself You could try to learn it but like anyother martial art you are gonna end having your own technique in it your own habits and your own strengths. Bruce did leave a mark on the martial arts world he encouraged MMA hich usually was frowned upon by other master who said their style is the best and thats all tehre is to it.

[Bruce_Fan]

Hey,

I understand your points about idolizing. Nevertheless, you must realize that kids and TEENAGERS will idolize someone.
Personally, I think as far as athletes go, Bruce is a great choice.

If you read his philosophy on life and martial arts, and admire the fact that he was into keeping his body fit like a fine tuned machine, then you really can't go wrong.
Idolizing anyone to an extreme is always dangerous. However, Keep in mind that most of us were once Teenagers (Some still are, lol) and we had posters on our walls,
(Be it Rock and Roll stars, Movie Stars, Athletes, whoever.......)

It's just that some martial Artists seem to have a problem with people admiring Bruce. I don't get it!
You don't see people being hassled for admiring some NBA player or some NFL player! Why is this so in the Martial arts?
Meanwhile the NFL player can barely speak English and speaks as if he had the IQ of a Box of tomatoes. The guy is selfish and promotes his "Thug" life upbringing.
No one seems to find fault with that, but certain Martial Artists hear the name of Bruce and they have to suddenly inject their opinion and dislike.

I say let it go and make something out of your own life. If admiring Bruce will get someone interested in the Martial Arts and motivate him to get off his ass, then let it be.

I admire a lot of people for what they have overcome. It's not always about being good at what you do. Many times it's about overcoming obstacles and not giving up. Jackie Robinson was not the greatest baseball player ever but he certainly had to overcome a lot to be the first black player in major league baseball where no one wanted him.
In doing so, he not only opened the door for many others, but was the source of inspiration for many other people. (And not just Athletes.)
Bruce was Asian and he was not very welcome in Hollywood. We all know the details. This is not to mention the pressures of introducing a new philosophy in the martial arts when every 55th Degree Black Belt who is a Karate Super Grand master with incredible "Wax on/wax off" Kata forms is out to shoot you down.

Ok, enough ranting on my part.
I am a fan of Bruce and I am not afraid to admit it.

Bruce_Fan

[JKDude]

Thanks for the comments...

I suppose the debate is more focused on Lee rather than the current manifestation of JKD.

I think that the main issue is the fact that people refer to JKD as it was when Lee was involved in it. Learning and discussion would be a lot easier and productive if people paid more attention to what JKD has evolved into. (Inosanto, Kabayama, Vunak, Dog Brothers, to name a few --- they're all connected to it and make their own contributions, some more than others)

[Ryu (JKD?)]

"It's just that some martial Artists seem to have a problem with people admiring Bruce. I don't get it! "

There's a real reason for this...but it will step on a lot of people's toes.


I think it's damn funny that people have put him on such a pedestal (whether it be to idolize him or try to knock him off) Talk about flattering!

I've said it before and I'll say it again..... damn I hope people talk this much about me 30 years after I'm dead....


Bruce Lee was a personality that tried to make a difference in culture and what people believed about Asians. Much of what he wanted to accomplish was so far removed from "being a martial artist" that it's tragically funny to hear people argue about that point.
Bruce was about breaking stereotypes, making statements through film, and changing perceptions. Most of this was really not geared to martial art. It was geared towards other things.

Ryu