If vertical or horizontal fists feel unnatural try this

[goatnipples2002]

I find it very hard for me to hit with the vertical fist, and the horizontal fist is just plain weak, it has no wrist support or structure.
The old-time pugilism punched with a vertical fist. The horizontal fist only became popular in SPORT boxing after the introduction of thickly padded gloves. There was a good reason for this. A vertical fist protects the hand from injury. Two biomechanical principles are key. First is the idea of spreading the force of the strike over as large a portion of the surface of the knuckles as possible. This keeps any one bone of the hand from being subjected to excessive stress. Second is keeping the wrist aligned in as "squared" a position as possible so that when the force of your strike is reflected back, it travels through the center of your wrist and up the middle or "long-axis" of your forearm. If your wrist is not aligned properly, force will be reflected off at an angle rather than through the center of your forearm, and your wrist is more likely to bend and suffer damage (and you wondered why your wrist collapsed/broke). Punching this way feels very natural for me because you don't have to twist, turn or snap your hand. It will do all this naturally. If you try and twist your hand you will end up with a horizotal fist, which has a weak support structure.

Get up from your computer and try this simple experiment. Face the wall and extend your arm completely straight out in front at your own chin level. Make a horizontal fist (palm down) and place it against the wall. Now lean your weight onto your fist so that it is as flat against the wall as possible. You will find that not only will your wrist bend upward, it will bend outward as well in order to keep the fist flat against the wall. Now pivot so that you have a vertical fist (palm inward) while rolling your elbow inward and do the same thing. Your wrist should stay "squared" and your fist should be in good contact with the wall at the same time. The vertical punch keeps the wrist aligned to prevent it from being injured, and allows force to be spread over the surface of the knuckles as much as possible to avoid a fracture of the hand. Think of aiming with the "middle" knuckle of the hand when punching. This is the one that is most in line with the long-axis of your forearm and so will help you keep your wrist properly aligned. Also try and keep the elbow of your punching arm rolled inward as if pointing toward your opposite foot. This not only helps to keep the wrist aligned, but also aligns your forearm with your shoulder for maximum delivery of force when punching.

[Davidc316]

I tried your little experiment and I think you're right!

[goatnipples2002]

I got the idea from a guy off the net. His site is titled "Won't you break your hand",but you're right it does work. Just remember not to focus on twisting the punch; focus should be on shooting the punch straight out and making contact with the bottom 3 knuckles only. The twist from vertical to diagnal fist will happen naturally.

[dragonboy]

its true........it does work.

[auto]

Hey Goat I like your quote... hey that rhymes..cool. Many here don't want to accept how dangerous real fights are. They think " I'll practise with my buddy and I'll kick your ass punk" then go out in the real world and find out different.
What I noticed about my fist is that it was always most comfortable at a 45 degree angle. Hold your hands out in front of you horizontally relaxed and then queeze into a fist. Your fist will turn to a 45... Maybe it's just me though.

[swan104]

Originally posted by auto
Hey Goat I like your quote... hey that rhymes..cool. Many here don't want to accept how dangerous real fights are. They think " I'll practise with my buddy and I'll kick your ass punk" then go out in the real world and find out different.
What I noticed about my fist is that it was always most comfortable at a 45 degree angle. Hold your hands out in front of you horizontally relaxed and then queeze into a fist. Your fist will turn to a 45... Maybe it's just me though.

This is an interesting post. When I workout on a bag, I feel a lot more confortable throwing the punches in a horizontal manner (like a straight blast) than if I use boxing combos (like the jab-cross) where the fist is horizontal.

This is probably due to poor execution of techinique, but in the past, I have hurt my wrist when throwing a punch, and feeling my wrist bend when I hit the pad/bag at a funny angle.

I also find that I throw a hook with the fist vertical (palm facing towards me own body) rather than horizontal (palm facing down). Is there a preferred method of aligning the fist when throwing a hook?

Steven

[Alex]

It is important when using a vertical fist that the knuckles are aligned properly. They should form a straight line, and NOT curve inward as you look the knuckles from the index to the pinky. You may want to hold your vertical fist up looking in a mirror to ensure it is a straight vertical line when you are making a fist.

I tried to post a graphic of what I mean, but I couldn't get it too work, sorry.

[goatnipples2002]

When using this punch technique and you aim at the center line the knuckles will most likely hit and not the rest of your fist. Aim with your middle knuckle.


I use the iron cross push ups to strengthen my wrist/forearm muscles. They helped tremendously. I fractured my wrist in a car accident on halloween 2002 and now I can hit the bag with no problem because of the iron crosses.


Thanks for the good words, I post alot on the boxing forum and they don't be listen to what I say so I hope one day they'll understand what I'm telling them.

I somewhat practice the jeet kune do system, I'm a street fighter though. I believe that alot of what bruce studied is common sense. He came up with JKD along time ago it actually applies to today's time, no wonder he kicked alot of peoples asses.

I would like to know what you guys do when you go to your class to see if it matches my training schedule.

[thtackett]

The last year that Bruce taught in Chinatown he told Bob Bremer that he discovered that holding his fist at a 45 degree angle was the strongest as it protected the wrist better and you didn't have to hit with the last 3 knuckles. You can check this out by getting in a good stance and holding your fist in all 3 positions (Hor, ver, and 45 degree) and having a friend hit your hand as hard as he can with his palm.
Tim Tackett

[goatnipples2002]

I use the diagnal fist and when I aim for the centerline I hit with my last 3 knuckles. I've hit this way my whole life and was told I fight wrong (I'm a natural southpaw) and didn't realize peolpe were wrong until I researched martial arts 3 years ago. I've always hit with my last 3 knuckles. Hitting with these knuckles is the best because they are in line with your forearm bones.

[auto]

Well I'll be 'goddamn'. If that is really you, tell me where you learned your kung fu and what styles. Because I know. Wait a minute, Tim would be over 70 by now. Maybe this is Junior?

[thtackett]

It's Tim Senior. I'm really only 62. I just look 70. My post was just to tell what Bruce shared with Bob Bremer. He told him that you try and make contact with the 2 middle knuckles. You can punch any way you want to. You may find a better way then what Bruce said. After all he can researching. While in Taiwan, I learned Tai Chi, Hsing-i and other stuff. But my main teacher has always been Dan Inosanto.
Tim Tackett

[auto]

Thanx Tim for the reply. You still doing that non profit thing in Redlands?

[thtackett]

We're there every Wed night. Bob Bremer and Jim Sewell are there also. They are 2 original students of Bruce's. Lloyd Kennedy is there, if he doesn't have to work late. Louis Berard is there most Weds. Barry Dixon can only make it about once or twice a month. Dennis Blue is becoming a doctor of Oriental Medicine, but still makes it almost every Wed. Jeremy Lynch is there 2 Weds out of the month. We usually have about 5 or 6 teachers with about 3 or 4 students. (In a way we are all still students). We still do not charge any money to attend class and visitors are welcome.

[auto]

Cool, if I am in the area I will try my damndest to stop by. Take care Tim. By the way, does Junior still train?