silat or bjj

[Sphinx]

which is more effective on the street bjj or penjak silat (sorry bout spelling).

[BlackMaskX]

My inexperienced opinion would be that silat is more effective because it is weapons-oriented. Probably, it will give you a better idea of what to do when someone comes at you with a knife or club. But please keep in mind that I haven't had much exposure to either system; you should probably ask somebody more experienced.

[sikal]

I think it depends on which system of Silat you're referring to

However, for me personally, I prefer Silat. But that's only for me.

BJJ is a perfectly good system. A lot of the people I've encountered, though, who train in BJJ think that it's the ultimate. That's not the case. Nothing is the ultimate (though it may be the best for an individual). Many that I've met also neglect their standup game because they think all fights go to the ground. I think this is erroneous.

But I've met some BJJ guys who are very good and well-rounded.

But, for me personally, I prefer Silat. Even as far as straight groundfighting goes, I personally prefer Harimau Silat to BJJ. But that's just my personal preference.

Mike

[BlackMaskX]

Since we're sort of on the topic of groundfighting, how does dumog differ from BJJ?

[NHBMARK1]

If you can train in both, go for it!

Does the school offer both?
I've taken BJJ & seen silat videos, they both have plenty to offer.
Both grapple & lock, choke.

I would never wanna be on the ground in the street to begin with. Maybe more strike & takedowns.

Dumog vs BJJ?

Different approaches to taking one down, choke points.
By the elbow area for example, it's kind of a push pull thing.
Not unlike Tai Chi's pushing hands. When there energy is forward,you pull them, when they're back peddling the push comes in handy. I like how you can jolt the heck out of them, throw in sweeps, headbutts, elbows..But you need some sensitiviity to capture "where they're going"


I've only seen Paul Vunaks tape on Dumog (well worth getting)
But have never actually studied it, learned alot though.
I think I like the Dumog takedowns better.

I'm sure there's much more experienced folks here who can explain it better & offer a more solid opinion.

Hope some of that long wind of mine helped.

[Sphinx]

In my jun fan/ jkd class it is sort of part of the curriculum. You do jkd/fun fan then kali and silat. I wouldn't really try to do bjj but i was looking into shoot wrestling because i really want to compete. I have tried muay thai but the instructor was terrible he kicked me out the lesson for moving from a stance after a 6foot 7 guy fell on top of me and there are no other trainers where i come from.

[swan104]

Where do you train Sphinx? I train in JF/JKD, Kali and Silat as well, but I've also started training more in the grappling side of things. I do enjoy learning grappling, and am to learn a lot more.

What happened in the thai boxing class then? What do u mean by moving out of a stance?

[chris davis 200]

Hi guys,

saying just 'Silat' is like saying 'Kung Fu' - both refer to a massive array of fighting methods and individual styles.

Armed / unarmed / wrestling / grappling / striking / internal / external - etc etc.

What kind of silat are we talking about?

Also what is ment by you learn JKD and Silat and Kali?

So you go from the non traditional theory and methods of JKD to the traditional methods of Silat and Kali? seems a bit strange, i thought that if anything your training would be JKD full stop with no seperation into individual 'styles'. Is this not what JKD is, is this not what bruce lee created?

He said himself that JKD would be different for every one it is not a style but a theory of study.

Cheers
Chris

[swan104]

Originally posted by chris davis 200
Hi guys,

saying just 'Silat' is like saying 'Kung Fu' - both refer to a massive array of fighting methods and individual styles.

Armed / unarmed / wrestling / grappling / striking / internal / external - etc etc.

What kind of silat are we talking about?

Also what is ment by you learn JKD and Silat and Kali?

So you go from the non traditional theory and methods of JKD to the traditional methods of Silat and Kali? seems a bit strange, i thought that if anything your training would be JKD full stop with no seperation into individual 'styles'. Is this not what JKD is, is this not what bruce lee created?

He said himself that JKD would be different for every one it is not a style but a theory of study.

Cheers
Chris

When I started training, I thought exactly the same thing. What I train in is JF/JKD Concepts. There shouldn't be a separation of individual styles, but for analytical purposes, it is possible to break things down so it looks like you are flowing from one art to another (even thoough all you are doing is "borrowing" principles from other systems and making it your own). For example, a jab-cross combination can be seen as taken from boxing, a pak sau from Wing Chun etc.

The same applies to Kali and Silat. I take back saying I study Kali and Silat because I don't study it "full time", like a lot of people do, and that doesn't give me the right to say I am a Kali/Silat practitioner. Apologies to all Kali/Escrima and Silat people out there! I am a JKD student that would like to learn how to take principles from those arts and use it if it is right for me, and when the time is right.

JKD is different for everyone, which is why some people have decided to look into the south-east Asian systems (like Dan Inosanto). Personally, I would like to learn more Kali/Escrima because I enjoy it!

[chris davis 200]

I see where your coming from now - it is good to know where techniques come from.

Personally, I would like to learn more Kali/Escrima because I enjoy it!

One of the best reasons to practice!!

cheers
Chris

[Sphinx]

swan, i train with a student of your instructor who is dave carnell from stoke-on-trent, you to train with the magda institue like me.
When i trained in Muay thai it was a combination of muay thai and some kung fu. I was doing some stances for kung fu and had to hold my position the guy was really strict. There were two huge blokes bth were around 6foot 7 maybe 6"8" they were sparring in muay thai. One of them took a push kick to the stomach when he was performing a roundhouse, he feel and i saw him coming so i moved out of the way. I had only been going to the class three times, it is abit of shambles (the class). The guy didn't speak much english but from i gather he kicked me out and refused to teach me untill i was "disciplined enough". His loss he doesn't get any more money. I was the first of many to leave the class he is reknown in my city by MANY martial artists as terrible instructor. He now teaches in birmingham.

[terry]

If I were to do it I would make MT/BJJ my core art and cross train some in silat and a few other styles. MT/BJJ has a superior training and conditioning method to all of the 10 or 12 silat styles I've seen. At the same time, the silat systems are like a huge and diverse storehouse of knowledge. You can browse that body of knowledge for useful information, try something out and, if you can use it, it's yours. Things might just work out for you, especially if you have either: A) a lot of time on your hands, or B) a teacher who can net things out for you.

Of the traditional silat styles I've trained I can say that it includes a lot of dancing and less than state-of-the-art training methods. Would I spend another 10 years again training this kind of stuff?
Prolly not. Been there, done that. If you have the time to wade through that, fine. But for me it's about ROI (return on investment). I have to be stingy about how I allocate my time, and prioritize things that best produce: A) Fighting skill and B) fitness.

Terry

[Ray White]

Both are great! I like Silat for pure self defence, but I agree that it would depend on what kind of Silat and who was teaching the BJJ.

Luckily we have exposure to Maphilindo Silat and Majapahit Arts from Dan Inosanto, and Mande Muda Silat from the Suwanda Academy. Both of those arts to me are the perfect bridge between our Thai Boxing and full ground grappling arts like BJJ and Combat Submission Wrestling. The Silat is more mobile and aware of the multiple awareness scenario, and can go to the ground or Harimau style if needed.

see...
www.inosanto.com
www.suwandaacademy.com

If your in Minnesota see the Minnesota Kali Group
www.mnkali.com

See ya,

Ray

[terry]

Yah, Guro Inosanto is one of those who can really net things out for you. He can turn years into months.

I also like to use some of the silat to fill in some cracks around Muay Thai. My biggest concern with the traditional silat schools was in the training methods. Fixing the training methods and structures is actually pretty easy to do (but politically incorrect).

[terry]

Ray,

Who is Hairy Mao, and where did he come from?

Terry