Kicks in general?

[Kamuiiv]

Hello all,

I'm taking JKD concepts here in houston with Tim M. and I was wondering what people's opinions were as far as using kicks in fights or as kicks in general. In movies obviously they are very stylized but I was wondering how effective kicks are, or how effective you find certain types of kicks in fights etc. High kicks, roundhouse's, side kicks, muy thai kicks...err...kicks used in in TKD - all of them. I'm just wondering because there doesn't seem to be much talk of kicks - ground warfare is much more talked about (understandingly so) and used more often also.

I ask only b/c I'm brainwashed by movies and keep having these visions of a high kick to the face of an approaching opponent - I suppose to an untrained fighter it would be effective ya? But then again what do I know...my fight count is at 0.

Feel free to comment, offer suggestions, or joke around - I'm just looking for input.

Thanks,
KV

[Wearing Grey]

Hi Kamuiiv,

Before I get started, my training is in TKD and HKD, so I am a bit biased.

I think kicks are very effective. Of course it depends on what you are doing. If you train in a kicking style everyday and stay to where you can throw a high, or mid-high kick then they would probably help. If you only practice kicking every once in a while, they may be more of a finishing move then just regular combat.

I train 5 days a week. So I stay pretty stretched out. If I were to get into a fight, I would use my legs way more than my hands. That is how I have been trained.....so that is what I would use.

If you are fighting a regular ol' Joe Blow person then kicking is obviously going to be deadly. Most people do not kick in a fight so this would obviously throw this person off.

If you were fighting another MA'ist or just sparring, then the other MA person will likely adapt and counter with whatever he/she trains in.

Ground fighting is also good in real fights because for some reason everybody wants to tackle each other. I still have not figured out why??? Kinda odd it seems. I have never been in a fight since I started taking my MA's. I would really try to stay off the ground. If I ended up there anyways, TKD would not do me much good so I would have to switch over to HKD.

WG

[seeker]

If I get into a fight I would not use high kicks, because I think it is easier to end a fight with a strong punch. I could imagine, anyway that kicks to the mid section are effective in a "streetfight" because they are obviously effective when sparring.

[Thai Bri]

Kicks to the mid section have little chance of hurting a conditioned opponent, and a lot of chance of getting your leg caught.

Kick 'em hard, and kick 'em low.

[Lizard]

If someone is standing facing you (neither leg forward) then perhaps a push kick of some sort would be a good idea. Also a kick to the groin could be quite effective. Apart from that I wouldn't use kicks in a real fight, I'm much more confident in my ability to hit with my hands.

The reason why people tackle each other in a fight is because whoever is getting punched in the face will want to close the distance to stop themselves from getting hit. Also I think wrestling is natural for humans.

High kicks are usualy a bad idea, you have less chance of hitting them and you risk falling over.

[JKDfreak]

I agree with you Lizard.I use most low kicks and occasionally medium kicks to push them away with a push kick or a burning step side kick.
I've often nailed my partners with low side kicks to the knee or thai round kick to calf/thigh area.
the reason why most streetfighter close in is that they want to avoid getting punched and they feel safer holding the other guy.Most fo the fights end grappling or on the ground.You can take that for your advantage.The guy is coming and get a hold on you.While side kicking him in the knee,intercept the oncoming punch and apply a wrist lock or go for the clinch and knee him,elbows,well all the nasty things you know.

[Roland]

Kicks are fine.

Just keep them low.

If you want to kick someone in the head, make sure they are on the ground with you standing over them.

[dfissionr]

High kicks are effective, but like what msot other people said just not within initial phase of the fight. I've seen high kicks knock people out in Pride and K-1. Gilbert Yvel does one in one of his highlight clips. The main thing though if you're planning on using that high kick is if you're fast, powerful, and clever enough to make it practical. Round houses are just useful as hell. I've even seen really fancy kicks like back spin hell kicks be used very effecitvly in K-1, by people like Cung Le.

[Kamuiiv]

Thanks for the input guys. Everyone has pretty solid points. I'm taking JKD for conditioning and for self defense I was just curious since so far we haven't really used kicks. I'm a small guy - 5'6-125 and pretty skinny - yes yes I need to bulk up a bit more I know that - and I was just wondering whats effective in terms of kicking. I once saw this video of Bruce Lee throwing what he called his 'side kick' to this guys knee cap and I thought to myself that if I was fast enough that would be an appropriate way to 'intercept' the opponent with a kick. But I suppose to an experienced fighter they could block it or parry it somehow eh? Thats basically what led to my curiousity as far was kicks are concerned. If I don't get enough 'kicking' training through JKD what would you guys recommend as to try to learn? TKD?? Anything else?

Thanks again.
Kv

[Ripley]

I wouldn't pick TKD for kicking (necessarily), although the style does have the fanciest kicks and focuses on kicking. Just pick something you're comfortable with that includes a kicking element - kick-boxing, karate.
Re. the other posts, I don't think the spinning back-kick is fancy, when you practice it alot it becomes second nature and effective, that's why you can get away with it in a fight.
I've ended a fight before it's begun with a couple of low kicks to the legs. It sorta said 'look I'm hurting you at this range - do you want to come on in and get closer?'. At the time, my opponent decided he'd move away...
A guy at my dojo says he stopped a confrontation by putting a spinning kick over the top of a guys head. The guy decided he was better off not pursuing that fight. However, I'm not suggesting anyone tries that - showing off with a fancy high spinning kick will most likely land you on your ass.

[BadgerFu57]

My pick would be a snap-kick to the groin (soften them up for a combo/takedown) or a low roundhouse type kick shin-to-shin. If you have conditioned shins, taht could really hurt the average joe, and if you hit him in the knee, that would hurt too.

[ShadowMoses]

To Be Honest the only time in a fight I would recommend using kicks would be if you are able to get enough distance from you're enemy, to increas chances that you will connect the kick I find it best to use kicks as a follow up, i.e. punch in the gut or face to dissorient the enemy and then a kick to the face.

I trained a lot on kicks in Kyokushin Karate, and I can kick the crap out of a dead donkey (lol), and I have really strong legs, but my upper body is pretty crappy in comparison so I use my fists to dissorient opponents and then kick em when they are distracted.

In short, kicks are usefull if you are good at them and get a good opportunity ti hit with them,

Bye bye for now

Mark

P.S I'm new here

[Great Sage]

I’ve used all sorts of kicks effectively in real fights. Effective kicking depends on speed, power and distance. A fast kick is hard to see in unsuspecting moments. Likewise, a powerful kick is hard to block. Ofcourse, all this is only possible through correct distance.

High kicks are more high risk maneuvers. That is, you are at risk of getting your leg caught, falling off balance or being taken down. The upside is that a solid kick to the head can usually end a confrontation.

The biggest problem with high and medium kicks is that they are relatively noticed by the untrained eye. Most people have a natural reflex to defend their upper body. However, as I mentioned earlier, if your kick is fast, powerful and has good distance...

Like most MA veterans, I prefer low kicks, used sparingly. Kicking drastically changes your positioning and distance. A low kick that misses is not as easy to recover from compared to a jab. Therefore, it’s always advisable to use your hands to set things up.

In conclusion, use kicking where applicable... A good kicker uses his speed for reach and powerful attacks. Most guys you encounter on the streets are not accustomed to good kicking skills, so it’s not a bad idea to develop good kicks.

[fullcircle]

Depends on the situation. "I would do this, I would do that" is crap. No one knows how a fight is going to go down. I don't know what I'm going to do until I do it. If the opening for a high kick was there, I'll take it, if not I'll keep them low. I would not intitiate the attack with a high kick though.

[osopardo]

My core is TKD and currently studying HKD - If you're talking about real fighting ( the kind that causes you legal problems later on) I'm personally biased towards the striking arts. I don't want to roll around on the ground with some stranger and risk getting the living daylights kicked out of me by his friends.
Regarding kicks; I may be into high fancy kicks in the dojang but in the streets it only makes sense to kick to knee level or below. Keep your foundation stable. Deliver blows to targets from the source of attack nearest to target.