bruce lee, a chinese hero!!

[proud chinaman]

i know alot of folk discredit bruce lee, think hes underrated, and never entered tournaments so he aint a credible fighter. but you know he wanted to become more than just another fighter who would probably get forgotten, he wanted to become a chinese hero, make chinese people proud, and spread his views and make kick ass movies, which guess what, he did!!

Alot of people probably dont understand but for alot of chinese, bruce lee is the man!! not idol worshipping or whatever but he sure boosted alot of our esteems up and made us proud to be chinese!! to tell you the truth i dont care about those arguements like could bruce lee beat mohammed ali or whatever. white people have elvis preley,marylin monroe, blacks have their martin luthur king and tupac, and we have BRUCE LEE!!

and anyone here who discredits him as a fighter , i highly doubt that anyone here could touch him. Bruce lee was obsessed with training and martial arts, so its pretty safe to assume hes harder than joe average and the average martial artist, but thats jus my opinion, so there!!

[Tom Yum]

Great, what rank did you get in BJJ and what level are you in wing chun (what lineage?)?

[RobertG]

Why did you have to start this crap again? I think I'm probably not alone in saying that I'm soooooo sick of hearing about how great Bruce was. Enough already. Can't you move on?

Last I checked, Jackie Chan's movies were actually more popular in Asia than Bruce's. In this sense, I'd think you'd be more proud that Jackie was able to get huge cross-over fame in the US. Not to mention that Jet Li and Chow Yun Fat haven't done so bad. Bruce certainly opened the door for Asian movie stars. He was absolutely instrumental in that. I will grant that much. But you can't keep dwelling upon him.

Ok, then dude, you put Martin Luther King Jr. and Tupac in the same class? What the hell is wrong with you? I mean, yeah, Tupac was a great rapper, but he's hardly in the same class of human being as MLK. If African American's see Tupac as their idol then that is just sad. I think its a little offensive that you somehow associate all blacks as worshipping rappers. I can't say I've ever had a black friend tell me he or she was proud to be black because of Tupac. If anything Tupac gave America the sterotypical notion that all black males are gangstas and thugs. Quite the opposite of the effect you are claiming for Bruce--and certainly a very different effect than MLK had on the American consciousness.

Likewise, I don't think most white people think Elvis or Marilyn are their idols, and the greatest thing their culture has to offer. They are both historical relics these days. A bit of nostaglic pop culture. A more appropriate argument would be that Brittney Spears and Eminem give white people pride. But that too would be the height of absurdity.

And that is just sad that you think Bruce is the epitome of Chinese culture. I mean you have a culture that goes back like 4,000 years or thereabouts. China is responsible for many innovations, and has been a major player in the world for all of history. And you're proud of a movie star. Sad, sad, sad. That would be like white people saying Chuck Norris makes us all proud to be American. Or Steven Seagal. That is essentially what you are saying. If out of thousands of years of culture all you can find to make you proud to be Chinese is Bruce Lee then I think you really need to learn more about your culture. China has been the cradle of civilization in east Asia--it is the nation that all other nations in east Asia (save Japan) payed homage to and looked to for their own cultural development. And you're proud of a movie star. Not of the fact that you come from one of the oldest and most influential cultures on Earth. Whatever. I am sick to death of this hero worship. Bruce was a man. He had some great thoughts. He was a damn good martial artist, but not invincible, nor the best ever. He had all the normal faults of any human being. And he's been dead 30 years. Move on man. I know China has as a nation. I'm pretty damn certain the average person in China doesn't give Bruce Lee very much thought these days. And this worship of Bruce also precludes you from acknowledging successful Chinese people today in the real world.

I have to tell you PC that I've known and worked with lots of Chinese people. I have never, ever over all the years heard any Chinese person I know talk about Bruce Lee. Not once. So based on my experience I think you are speaking of your own hero worship and not some deep seated cultural trend towards worshiping Bruce. Its just not there. If anything I think Bruce is worshipped way more by white people.

Let the flames commence.

[Tom Yum]

RG, this guy is likely a troll.

How many people call themselves "Proud Chinaman"?
Its like someone calling themselves "Big Black Guy."

[Ryu (JKD?)]

A lot of the Chinese I hang out with do respect Bruce in that he developed a screen persona that battled Asian stereotypes at the time.

The same can't really be said for people like Jet Li... I've never thought that he represented a good character or role model (at least in his new stuff)

Jackie Chan is okay.... (sometimes )


Bruce's mission was to fight stereotypes in media. He really wanted to make a "Chinese hero" that the Americans would accept as well.

Which he did.


Ryu

[Ryu (JKD?)]

That being said, however, the Chinese culture is very deeply beautiful if you really get into it. Has its throwbacks of course, but the history out of that nation is immense...simply breathtaking.

I don't think Bruce considered himself, or would ever consider himself, the epitome of Chinese culture! I agree that would be sad! LOL

Ryu

[RobertG]

All he did Ryu was replace one stereotype with another. So after Bruce then we had the stereotype that all Asians were kung fu experts. The characters that Bruce portrayed were still caricatures of Asians. He opened the doors for Asians to get into Hollywood. And if he had gotten to do the Kung Fu TV series like he wanted, instead of David Carridine, then maybe he would have shown more depth, fleshed himself as a person to the general American. It was a step forward for Chinese Americans. But, its not like he tried to show himself (or Asians) as anything other than badass martial artists who kick ass and occassionally spout some esoteric wisdom. And even today Asians still get stuck with that role. They're supposed to know martial arts. Bruce did his small part for Asians, but I think if his real goal was to show America that their stereotypes of Asians were false, then he should have gone the route of attempting to be a serious actor, not a kung fu actor. Portraying himself as a real human being, not just a guy who runs around kicking people in the head. He had the screen prescence and charisma, and who knows, maybe he would have attempted to go in this direction. But I don't think he can be equated to some sort of liberator of Chinese people from stereotypes. Its just not true. Whoever manages to get the first Asian sitcom on TV in America will deserve those accolades.

[Ryu (JKD?)]

Did you know we already had an Asian TV sitcome called "All American Girl" with Margarette Cho? It lasted only a couple weeks on the air.... (ironically, the Asians themselves didn't like it.)

Well yeah, the kung fu fighter stereotype is unfortunate, and is actually one Bruce accidently started too I think.

Bruce really was concerned with Chinese being portrayed as strong and fighters since, at the time, all that was on TV was the pigtail "bowing and scrapping" type roles.

He definitely sought out to destroy that. Unfortunately he did start another LOL. But I really don't think that was his intention. He was concerned with giving Chinese a more positive role in media in the states.

Unfortunately, the media isn't doing much to combat stereotyping of Asians still today. But that's another post.

Ryu

[Ryu (JKD?)]

by the way, RobertG,
What is the name of that show in your avatar?? I saw one episode where these "moon people" (who were the old fashioned 6-bit computer game type characters) came down and tried to pressure the "meatball" into wannabe gang life, etc.

The most hilarious thing I've seen. Couldn't stop laughing.

But for the life of me I can't remember the name of the show!

"Aqua power team?" or something??

Ryu

[Lizard]

"i know alot of folk discredit bruce lee, think hes underrated"

If only you were being sarcastic.

Actualy I think the people on this forum are a bit obssessed about him. He is OVER-RATED.

"I think bruce lee would have become a great scientist if he had studied science"

NO, to be a good scientist you need to be good at science. Bruce was good at fighting. Science is not the same as fighting.

Bruce was not a god, or an alien, he was not ressurected and now working as a secret agent. He was just a guy.

He also had many bad points (I don't care if you call me a heretic). He could be angry and violent. He was OBSESSED with training. He wore a silly yellow tracksuit in one of his films.

Bruce never was and never will be perfect. Trying to copy him won't make you as good at fighting as him. Praising him and saying how great he was and how much we all must respect him won't make him come down from heaven and grant you wishes.

This forum may as well be called the "wasn't bruce great, how can I be more like him?" forum.

[Roland]

Originally posted by RobertG
Its just not true. Whoever manages to get the first Asian sitcom on TV in America will deserve those accolades.

Margaret Cho - All American Girl.

All hail Margaret Cho!!!!

[Roland]

Originally posted by Lizard
He also had many bad points (I don't care if you call me a heretic)...He wore a silly yellow tracksuit in one of his films.

Hey, it was the 70's.

Everyone wore silly stuff back then.

[Domstarr]

Don't you guys get tired reading the ridiculous stuff that comes from RobertG?

[RobertG]

Originally posted by Ryu (JKD?)
by the way, RobertG,
What is the name of that show in your avatar?? I saw one episode where these "moon people" (who were the old fashioned 6-bit computer game type characters) came down and tried to pressure the "meatball" into wannabe gang life, etc.

The most hilarious thing I've seen. Couldn't stop laughing.

But for the life of me I can't remember the name of the show!

"Aqua power team?" or something??

Ryu

Aqua Teen Hunger Force, Sunday 10:45 PM on the Cartoon Network.

[RobertG]

Originally posted by Domstarr
Don't you guys get tired reading the ridiculous stuff that comes from RobertG?

No, I have a huge fan club actually. What ridiculous stuff are you speaking of anyway? I'm sorry that I happen to think that China and Chinese culture has a lot more to offer the world than Bruce.

As for Margaret Cho, yeah, I forgot about that show. And yes, Margaret does make token appearances on sitcoms every now and then. The last I saw her she was making out with Anna Nicole Smith. I wasn't sure if I should be puking or enthralled.