The Ultimate in Martial Arts

Nutz · 09-10-2003, 09:44 AM

At what point in Bruce's training did he come to realize that one should flow (and adapt to the situation)? Was that his own, or did he adopt it from another martial art. If the latter, what martial art could he have pulled that concept out of?

swan104 · 09-10-2003, 10:15 AM

The idea of flowing from one art to another is not a new thing. Many martial arts masters have exercised this philosophy in the past by taking an art (or multiple arts) and refining it. I believe Wing Chun has its origins in the Shaolin temple, and is an amalgamation of the Snake and Crane systems? The only difference was that a few hundred years ago, information wasn't as accessible therefore their opportunity to learn about different arts and cultures was limited.

A lot of Bruce's ideas come from Jiddu Krishnamurti. Bruce applied a lot of Krishnamurti's ideas to the martial arts.

Nutz · 09-10-2003, 06:23 PM

While what you say may be correct, what I'm looking for is some insight as to when Bruce realized this. Was it during his Wing Chun days, or did something profound happen that made things click in his head?

swan104 · 09-10-2003, 06:53 PM

I think he did have plans to create an "ultimate style." However, it is documented that he realised the limitations of his own style after the Wong Jack Man punch up.

JKDFIGHTER · 09-11-2003, 01:14 AM

Bruce actually told a story about an incident during his Wing Chun days when he was getting frustrated at his progress. He was in a boat and in frustration struck the water with his fist. He had an epiphany at that moment. Water gives way, yet it can crash and be destructive. Water takes the form of whatever object it is in and yet has no form of it's own. Thus, he coined his phrase, "be like water". This is when he started to truly understand adaptability. Of course, this was only the beginning stage of what would eventually grow and grow into his own JKD.

Nutz · 09-11-2003, 01:31 AM

Thanks. That's what I was getting at. I was at a loss for the analogy.

**Thai Bri** · 09-12-2003, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by swan104
I believe Wing Chun has its origins in the Shaolin temple, and is an amalgamation of the Snake and Crane systems?

Hey Bud. That takes me back. I can remember your instructor telling me and my mate this about 20 years ago in Burslem town hall. When he said "Snake" he did a Bil Jee strike but, wait for it, actually hissed like a snake. And when he said "Crane" he hopped artound the room on one leg, flappin' his arms like a demented chicken.. He was deadly serious throughout. We pissed ourselves laughing when we got out of the class.

Sorry to keep having a go at him, but it was hilarious!

Cadden · 09-21-2003, 04:06 AM

Most likely during his Wing Chun days when he and his instructor Wong Shun Leung and friend Hawkins Cheung were having challenge matches all around Hong Kong, from different styles. Adaptation was a must, and there success means they had to adapt.

So I think most likely in his Wing Chun days.

"Hey Bud. That takes me back. I can remember your instructor telling me and my mate this about 20 years ago in Burslem town hall. When he said "Snake" he did a Bil Jee strike but, wait for it, actually hissed like a snake. And when he said "Crane" he hopped artound the room on one leg, flappin' his arms like a demented chicken.. He was deadly serious throughout. We pissed ourselves laughing when we got out of the class."

That me reminds me of something Wong Shun Leung said about the Wing Chun back story (the crane and the snake). He said (and I paraphrase) "If I was a crane I would fly away from the fight and never be hurt. And the only body part I have that looks like a snake I do not use for fight."

Oh and Wing Chun is definately not an amalgamation of Crane and Snake. Don't know were you heard that...

**Thai Bri** · 09-21-2003, 04:27 PM

He heard it from the guy who instructs him and instructed me.

Hiiiiissssssssssssssssssssssssss

swan104 · 09-21-2003, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Thai Bri
He heard it from the guy who instructs him and instructed me.

Hiiiiissssssssssssssssssssssssss

Actually, I didn't hear it from him. I remember reading it somewhere. I read that one theory behind the origins of Wing Chun was that they needed to create a system that was fast and easy to learn to prevent the uprising of the Ching dynasty, or something like that. All the Shaolin monks got together and came up with Wing Chun. This was just before the temple got burnt down!

I've never experienced any animal sound effects in training! I'm not sure what things were like when you trained, but I think things are a lot different these days!

NuffSpeed · 09-21-2003, 06:02 PM

I thought wing chun was invented by a Buddhist nun?

swan104 · 09-21-2003, 06:10 PM

Apparently, she was one of the Shaolin monks (or nuns)!

**Thai Bri** · 09-21-2003, 06:19 PM

Some Nun called Ng Mui (sp) invented it and dedicated it to her favourite student, who was called Lin Wing Chun.

Or some such twaddle.

Steve, no offence to you. Your guy made such a bad impression on me! Haw haw haw. I'm sure he's grown up a bit.

09-10-2003, 09:44 AM	#1 (permalink)
Nutz Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Maryland Posts: 217 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Question about Bruce Lee's discovery process At what point in Bruce's training did he come to realize that one should flow (and adapt to the situation)? Was that his own, or did he adopt it from another martial art. If the latter, what martial art could he have pulled that concept out of? Last edited by Nutz; 09-10-2003 at 09:46 AM.

09-10-2003, 10:15 AM	#2 (permalink)
swan104 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: Stoke-on-Trent Posts: 410 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	The idea of flowing from one art to another is not a new thing. Many martial arts masters have exercised this philosophy in the past by taking an art (or multiple arts) and refining it. I believe Wing Chun has its origins in the Shaolin temple, and is an amalgamation of the Snake and Crane systems? The only difference was that a few hundred years ago, information wasn't as accessible therefore their opportunity to learn about different arts and cultures was limited. A lot of Bruce's ideas come from Jiddu Krishnamurti. Bruce applied a lot of Krishnamurti's ideas to the martial arts. __________________ Steven

09-10-2003, 06:53 PM	#4 (permalink)
swan104 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: Stoke-on-Trent Posts: 410 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I think he did have plans to create an "ultimate style." However, it is documented that he realised the limitations of his own style after the Wong Jack Man punch up. __________________ Steven

09-11-2003, 01:14 AM	#5 (permalink)
JKDFIGHTER Registered User Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 75 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Be like water Bruce actually told a story about an incident during his Wing Chun days when he was getting frustrated at his progress. He was in a boat and in frustration struck the water with his fist. He had an epiphany at that moment. Water gives way, yet it can crash and be destructive. Water takes the form of whatever object it is in and yet has no form of it's own. Thus, he coined his phrase, "be like water". This is when he started to truly understand adaptability. Of course, this was only the beginning stage of what would eventually grow and grow into his own JKD.

09-21-2003, 04:06 AM	#8 (permalink)
Cadden Novice Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 38 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Most likely during his Wing Chun days when he and his instructor Wong Shun Leung and friend Hawkins Cheung were having challenge matches all around Hong Kong, from different styles. Adaptation was a must, and there success means they had to adapt. So I think most likely in his Wing Chun days. "Hey Bud. That takes me back. I can remember your instructor telling me and my mate this about 20 years ago in Burslem town hall. When he said "Snake" he did a Bil Jee strike but, wait for it, actually hissed like a snake. And when he said "Crane" he hopped artound the room on one leg, flappin' his arms like a demented chicken.. He was deadly serious throughout. We pissed ourselves laughing when we got out of the class." That me reminds me of something Wong Shun Leung said about the Wing Chun back story (the crane and the snake). He said (and I paraphrase) "If I was a crane I would fly away from the fight and never be hurt. And the only body part I have that looks like a snake I do not use for fight." Oh and Wing Chun is definately not an amalgamation of Crane and Snake. Don't know were you heard that... Last edited by Cadden; 09-21-2003 at 04:09 AM.

09-10-2003, 06:23 PM	#3 (permalink)
Nutz Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Maryland Posts: 217 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	While what you say may be correct, what I'm looking for is some insight as to when Bruce realized this. Was it during his Wing Chun days, or did something profound happen that made things click in his head?

09-11-2003, 01:31 AM	#6 (permalink)
Nutz Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Maryland Posts: 217 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks. That's what I was getting at. I was at a loss for the analogy.

09-21-2003, 04:27 PM	#9 (permalink)
Thai Bri Premiere Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 5,413 Groans: 1 Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts	He heard it from the guy who instructs him and instructed me. Hiiiiissssssssssssssssssssssssss

09-21-2003, 06:02 PM	#11 (permalink)
NuffSpeed Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Babylon Posts: 110 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I thought wing chun was invented by a Buddhist nun? __________________ It only takes a single grain of sand to change the world.

09-21-2003, 06:10 PM	#12 (permalink)
swan104 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: Stoke-on-Trent Posts: 410 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Apparently, she was one of the Shaolin monks (or nuns)! __________________ Steven

09-21-2003, 06:19 PM	#13 (permalink)
Thai Bri Premiere Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 5,413 Groans: 1 Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts	Some Nun called Ng Mui (sp) invented it and dedicated it to her favourite student, who was called Lin Wing Chun. Or some such twaddle. Steve, no offence to you. Your guy made such a bad impression on me! Haw haw haw. I'm sure he's grown up a bit.

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