The Ultimate in Martial Arts

nogard1980 · 09-10-2003, 03:06 PM

When going through a drill in training (for me wing chun/jkd) and you are the blocker, should you destruct the opposing limb as if in a reality situation. Or in order for the other person to be able to continue training for the day or next day at that, should you reasonably hold back. I was training last night and an the individual I was doing my drills with was trying to destruct my leg. It got to the point that my sifu had to tell him to stop trying to destruct my limbs. To day I can barely walk on my right leg and I have a not on my forearm the size of a golf ball.

sercuerdas · 09-10-2003, 03:12 PM

if you cracked him back he probably would have realized it hurts and stopped. yes you need to pull the shots.

nogard1980 · 09-10-2003, 03:16 PM

I couldn't. For one his leg was already injured and two I feel two wrongs don't make a right. Trust me I felt like just sucker punching him. I mean its not like we was sparing, he knew exactly what was coming.

eXcessiveForce · 09-10-2003, 03:26 PM

I have always told everyone I will hit them as hard as they hit me.

Fair is fair. If you hit me I get to hit you. If you blast me I get to blast you.

It's not about getting even when you tag someone that is hitting to hard, it about bringing it to their attention that they are doing something that is not helping training. Eventually it will get to the point where people will not train because they can't afford to get their limbs destructed at practice. When you take more damage in class than you do on the streets something is wrong.

nogard1980 · 09-10-2003, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by eXcessiveForce
I have always told everyone I will hit them as hard as they hit me.

Fair is fair. If you hit me I get to hit you. If you blast me I get to blast you.

It's not about getting even when you tag someone that is hitting to hard, it about bringing it to their attention that they are doing something that is not helping training. Eventually it will get to the point where people will not train because they can't afford to get their limbs destructed at practice. When you take more damage in class than you do on the streets something is wrong.

exactlly, How am I going to defend on the street if Im already banged up from training.

Nutz · 09-10-2003, 05:12 PM

Have you guys considered pads? We pretty much go full-speed with the destructions once we have the basic premise of how they're supposed to work. I have some old football pads for the forarms that work great for this sort of thing. Thick shin pads work wonders for little inside oblique kicks so long as you don't jam up their knee. However, boxing gloves don't seem to help much though when I elbow their punches... we're still looking into ways to better protect ourselves with that one.

eXcessiveForce · 09-10-2003, 05:59 PM

If you are working with pads that's a different story. But if you aren't the instructor you don't really have control over what is done in class.

I don't mind taking the hits as long as I get to give them back. Pads or no. I've been the punching dummy to many times in the past to let someone take free shots all day without realizing there is a price. It's give and take.

Apparently his instructor was not happy with situation since he stepped in and said something. The only real option is for him to discuss it with his instructor and see if he will pad them up.

nogard1980 · 09-10-2003, 05:59 PM

No pads at this time. but on of the focuses of our class drills is to nock stars together to get use to the impacts. but for what we was doing last night we should have had pads if he was planing on breaking my shin.

Nutz · 09-10-2003, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nogard1980
nock stars together

I'm not familiar with that term. Could you elaborate please?

nogard1980 · 09-12-2003, 11:57 AM

some of are training drills is geared to condition are forearms so that when we block we hurt the body part that is attacking. So by nocking stars: I mean we bang our fore arms against each other to toughin them up. Just like a kick boxer conditions his shins.

jules · 09-12-2003, 12:36 PM

Quote:

So by nocking stars: I mean we bang our fore arms against each other to toughin them up. Just like a kick boxer conditions his shins.

and you are supposed to go half speed. Come on man if you really wante do make your shins harder then rubbing them with one of those baking thingamagigs would be better. The guy is an idiot.

nogard1980 · 09-12-2003, 01:12 PM

just could you explain the baking thingamergigi. could that be a rolling pin. I would like to know cause I could possible us the same method to condition my forearms. You should nock stars rather hard, but as I said this guy has been training for 2 yrs to my 4mo , how much more do you think this guy could take then me?

Nutz · 09-12-2003, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nogard1980
just could you explain the baking thingamergigi. could that be a rolling pin. I would like to know cause I could possible us the same method to condition my forearms. You should nock stars rather hard, but as I said this guy has been training for 2 yrs to my 4mo , how much more do you think this guy could take then me?

The idea in using a rolling pin is that it damages the nerve endings on the bodypart that it's used on. While this may be true and help lessen the feeling of pain during an impact, the idea that it actually toughens them is a fallacy. If you want to "harden" your shins you're just going to need to take in more calcium (and other vitamins and minerals) that help in the making of stronger bones. The other way to get (somewhat) stronger bones is to break them--which so far not many people are doing en mass.

My preferred method of destroying the leg as it kicks towards me is not to "kick" or deflect their shin with mine, but to knee their shin. Not only does the knee have more support behind it when bent properly, you also have less surface area contacting when the shin hits the knee. This can break shins very easilly--lots of applied force by a tiny point equates to lots of damage. If you took that same amount of force but applied it over a larger surface area, you spread out the impact force causing less damage to any one point on the body or limb.

eXcessiveForce · 09-12-2003, 04:39 PM

Actually repetitive hitting of the bone will increase bone density.

I use a hit stick. it is a circular rod about 2 to 3 inches in diameter. It is cut in forths length wise. The cuts are usually about a centimeter or less so you end up with four pie shaped sections that go down to a 4 or 5 inch handle. this has enough give that you can whack your shins and forearms without breaking them.

I prefer just sparring, but when you get bored it works. Also certain exercises have been shown to increase bone density. Mostly for people with osteoporosis. These are mostly weight bearing exercises.

Nutz · 09-12-2003, 08:37 PM

That's what happens from microfractures--which is the same idea as all out breaking your leg against a tree multiple times a year.

Just taking a rolling pin to it is like comparing apples to oranges (unless you're whackin that leg with the rolling pin a la baseball bat-style).

09-10-2003, 03:06 PM	#1 (permalink)
nogard1980 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Maryland Posts: 69 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	limb destruction in training. When going through a drill in training (for me wing chun/jkd) and you are the blocker, should you destruct the opposing limb as if in a reality situation. Or in order for the other person to be able to continue training for the day or next day at that, should you reasonably hold back. I was training last night and an the individual I was doing my drills with was trying to destruct my leg. It got to the point that my sifu had to tell him to stop trying to destruct my limbs. To day I can barely walk on my right leg and I have a not on my forearm the size of a golf ball.

09-10-2003, 03:26 PM	#4 (permalink)
eXcessiveForce Excessive Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Missouri Posts: 2,991 Groans: 0 Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post	I have always told everyone I will hit them as hard as they hit me. Fair is fair. If you hit me I get to hit you. If you blast me I get to blast you. It's not about getting even when you tag someone that is hitting to hard, it about bringing it to their attention that they are doing something that is not helping training. Eventually it will get to the point where people will not train because they can't afford to get their limbs destructed at practice. When you take more damage in class than you do on the streets something is wrong. __________________ eXcessiveFORCE. If you must use force, make it excessive. www.b-prime.com A success and achievement community

09-10-2003, 05:59 PM	#7 (permalink)
eXcessiveForce Excessive Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Missouri Posts: 2,991 Groans: 0 Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post	If you are working with pads that's a different story. But if you aren't the instructor you don't really have control over what is done in class. I don't mind taking the hits as long as I get to give them back. Pads or no. I've been the punching dummy to many times in the past to let someone take free shots all day without realizing there is a price. It's give and take. Apparently his instructor was not happy with situation since he stepped in and said something. The only real option is for him to discuss it with his instructor and see if he will pad them up. __________________ eXcessiveFORCE. If you must use force, make it excessive. www.b-prime.com A success and achievement community

09-12-2003, 04:39 PM	#14 (permalink)
eXcessiveForce Excessive Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Missouri Posts: 2,991 Groans: 0 Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post	Actually repetitive hitting of the bone will increase bone density. I use a hit stick. it is a circular rod about 2 to 3 inches in diameter. It is cut in forths length wise. The cuts are usually about a centimeter or less so you end up with four pie shaped sections that go down to a 4 or 5 inch handle. this has enough give that you can whack your shins and forearms without breaking them. I prefer just sparring, but when you get bored it works. Also certain exercises have been shown to increase bone density. Mostly for people with osteoporosis. These are mostly weight bearing exercises. __________________ eXcessiveFORCE. If you must use force, make it excessive. www.b-prime.com A success and achievement community

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09-10-2003, 03:12 PM	#2 (permalink)
sercuerdas Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 160 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	if you cracked him back he probably would have realized it hurts and stopped. yes you need to pull the shots.

09-10-2003, 03:16 PM	#3 (permalink)
nogard1980 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Maryland Posts: 69 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I couldn't. For one his leg was already injured and two I feel two wrongs don't make a right. Trust me I felt like just sucker punching him. I mean its not like we was sparing, he knew exactly what was coming.

09-10-2003, 05:12 PM	#6 (permalink)
Nutz Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Maryland Posts: 217 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Have you guys considered pads? We pretty much go full-speed with the destructions once we have the basic premise of how they're supposed to work. I have some old football pads for the forarms that work great for this sort of thing. Thick shin pads work wonders for little inside oblique kicks so long as you don't jam up their knee. However, boxing gloves don't seem to help much though when I elbow their punches... we're still looking into ways to better protect ourselves with that one.

09-10-2003, 05:59 PM	#8 (permalink)
nogard1980 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Maryland Posts: 69 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	No pads at this time. but on of the focuses of our class drills is to nock stars together to get use to the impacts. but for what we was doing last night we should have had pads if he was planing on breaking my shin.

09-12-2003, 11:57 AM	#10 (permalink)
nogard1980 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Maryland Posts: 69 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	some of are training drills is geared to condition are forearms so that when we block we hurt the body part that is attacking. So by nocking stars: I mean we bang our fore arms against each other to toughin them up. Just like a kick boxer conditions his shins.

09-12-2003, 01:12 PM	#12 (permalink)
nogard1980 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Maryland Posts: 69 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	just could you explain the baking thingamergigi. could that be a rolling pin. I would like to know cause I could possible us the same method to condition my forearms. You should nock stars rather hard, but as I said this guy has been training for 2 yrs to my 4mo , how much more do you think this guy could take then me?

09-12-2003, 08:37 PM	#15 (permalink)
Nutz Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Maryland Posts: 217 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	That's what happens from microfractures--which is the same idea as all out breaking your leg against a tree multiple times a year. Just taking a rolling pin to it is like comparing apples to oranges (unless you're whackin that leg with the rolling pin a la baseball bat-style).

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