Sanda/Sanshou as Jeet Kune Do?

[Rudolphuss]

Click on the link for cool pictures .

http://crane.50megs.com/index2d.htm

"Sanda: Origin, Strengths & Weaknesses

Sanda/Sanshou is a popular & modern branch of Kung Fu. It is Chinese Martial Science incarnated as a ring sport, in case the reader does not already know. In spite of its impressive results against other martial arts/ring sports in recent times the Sanda system still show many weaknesses in the course of its many battles, especially when pitted against Muay Thai. We saw how the Sanda fighters lack knock-down power in their striking skills as compared to the Muaythai fighters. They were only able to win by making the Thais play by their rules & scoring points through throws. From this we know that Sanda as a system still needs a lot of improvement.

According to research, it is not inaccurate to declare that Sanda is actually Chinese Shuai Jiao (Wrestling) combined with Bruce Lee's Jeet Kune Do. Anybody who has studied Bruce Lee's early books on Jeet Kune Do & watched Sanda matches through the years will realize the many similarities. The Chinese have very deep respect for Bruce Lee & his martial art teachings. During the early 80s, the Sanda founders were probably all Shuai Jiao experts who lack striking skills. Seeking to improve & modernize, definitely they would have regarded Bruce Lee's JKD books as their bible. There is the same heavy reliance on the side kick, which is delivered in accordance to JKD principles, as well as the straight blast, which not many Sanda fighters can throw effectively. In fact we do sometimes see Sanda fighters knock down a foreign opponent with side kicks, but never with strong punches before.

Unlike JKD, however, is that Sanda fighters tend to uses Shuai Jiao throws whenever they can. That is understandable, considering their background. Bruce Lee, being an adept in Judo as well as Jujutsu, would probably have no objection to this Sanda characteristic. In JKD, although there are elbow/knee techniques, Bruce Lee himself seldom uses them, which explains why early Sanda fighters, who model their style after him, lack these important weapons. They proceeded to deceive themselves by inventing no elbow/knee & continuous punching rules. It also explains why in the past Sanda fighters lose badly when they fought under freestyle kickboxing or Muaythai rules. So Sanda was only punch, kick, throw until recently, where the rules were relaxed & simple knee techniques were added. Although Bruce Lee managed to defeat a Muaythai adept in Thailand during the fliming of "The Big Boss", he too was shocked by the ferocity of Muaythai elbows & knees. As a result he developed a deep respect for Muaythai & learned from it to form part of JKD. There's legends saying that his back was permanantly injured by a powerful mid level kick from the Thai fighter, or another Chinese Kungfu challenger (in the movie "Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story", but these are inaccurate. According to Mr Erickson's info, medical records in the US, as well as witnesses, saw Bruce sustain his famous back injury attempting to do extremely heavy barbell "good-mornings" (an exercise where you bend forward at the waist, designed to strengthen the lower back) during training. This was the cause of the back injury, led to his constant use of painkillers & eventually contributed to his death by drug overdose. All these serve as important lessons to remember for further developing Sanda in the future.

In order to better understand Sanda's current strengths & weaknesses, we must first be familiar with the universal 4 ranges of all striking arts, namely: kicking (long), punching (medium), trapping (short) & grappling (close). In kicking range, the side kick is the most direct kick with the longest reach, more so then even the push kick of Muaythai. If trained to be accurate & fast this kick can neutralize almost any other kick as well as do some amount of damage to an opponent. How much will depend on the individual's leg power. Following the principles of JKD, the Sanda system has learned the side kick well, though not to perfection yet. After Bruce Lee died, perhaps Bill Wallace is the only one who achieved prefection in it. In punching range, instead of using the straight blast like in JKD, Sanda uses a lot of hook punches, which obviously lack power & accuracy when compared to Kickboxing or Muaythai. In trapping range where elbows & knees rule Sanda fighters don't stand any chance at all. For Bruce Lee, he could still rely on his primary art Wing Chun, which has effective trapping techniques but for Sanda they have nothing to use. Finally in the grappling range Sanda excels due to its rich Shuai Jiao throws, but at the same time it can also be vulnerable to Muaythai's neck clinching, & again, the elbows, knees, & even throws that may follow.

We all know that Sanda is strong in the long & close range, weak in the medium & short range. Muaythai, on the other hand, has no weaknesses in its complete form, strictly speaking. It can do serious damage in all the 4 ranges, whereas Sanda can only do modest damage in its 2 effective ranges. That's why Sanda fighters mostly win by points & very rarely by KOs. So Muaythai fighters need only to concentrate on attacking in Sanda's ineffective ranges to destroy it completely. This is also a warning to Chinese Sanda: Improve on boxing & elbow/knee defence very quickly, or be prepared for Muaythai's total revenge. Its position as the ultimate ringsport & striking art cannot be shaken so easily. The Chinese may have succeeded in using strategy to gain an upperhand on the 8th of September, but the Thais will surely crush the Chinese the next time for they too, know Sanda's weaknesses now. The latest news is that on the 23rd, although the Thais will be allowed to use elbows/knees & clinching they will be made to wear elbow pads.. & who knows, maybe knee pads too? Of course, to be fair these will be worn by both sides. Elbow pads may reduce chances of cuts & bleeding but it won't make the impact of elbow strikes any less. This time it will be a challenge of pro fighters instead of amateurs. I think the Chinese Sanda team know what they are in for. Just watch, it is the Thais who will have the last laugh."

[Rudolphuss]

By the way, great forum, guys. I am Jay from San Jose, CA. I found this website while I was seeking Bruce Lee information on the web, so I am glad to see so many people interested in the master.

[swan104]

Is there any evidence that Sanshou/Sanda fighters actually train in JKD?

[brokenelbow]

No, and the entire article is based upon an idiotic premise.

[Nutz]

Originally posted by brokenelbow
No, and the entire article is based upon an idiotic premise.

I wouldn't go so far as to say its idiotic, but I do think its glaringly missing the point of what JKD represents (in its many forms).

[swan104]

I agree Nutz. It sounds like they've read the Tao of JKD during their toilet break and decided what they were doing is JKD.