Joe Lewis Interview

[Rudolphuss]

Guys, I've heard that Joe Lewis is one of the greatest Karate practitioners and kickboxers in the world, and has contributed a lot to martial arts. I hope you'll like this interview, in which he talked in depth about his relationship with Bruce.

http://www.joelewiskarate.com/joe-lewis/faq.asp

So what do you think about this interview? Do you think Bruce Lee was overrated?

[begins]

*thinks on how to put this lightly*

...no...

peace

[Rudolphuss]

Originally Posted by begins

...no...

Can you please elaborate on this? I mean Lewis did do a good job talking about his experiences with Lee. The least you can do is discuss some of his statements.

[jules]

How well would Bruce Lee have done in competition? Would he have been a tough opponent for you?
Asking me about this or what he could have been is like asking how good an actor Tyson could be. ETD (Bruce Lee¡¯s film ¡°Enter the Dragon¡±?) remains the highest grossing in history. That's accolades to last 10 lifetimes. Don't make him more immortal than he was. He's the leading candidate for being the greatest martial artist of all time. That doesn't make you a fighter.

. As you sparred and trained with him - how was Bruce as a fighter and a martial artist - were his skills as good as it has been written?

Joe Lewis: Were his skills as good as they've been written-NO. You must understand that people writing about somebody they didn't know makes it difficult to write with absolute truth. You're speaking from someone else's observations rather than first hand experience. Certain writers tend to embellish and sensationalize.

In your opinion, why are Bruce Lee fans so damned hypersensitive?

Joe Lewis: Anytime an individual embraces an idol, whether it's a direct emotional attachment or a vicarious association, and probably the most coveted example I can give is the Christian's symbolic affection they have for Jesus Christ. Any time there's an implied attack on their idol, they take it personally. Most of these people, in my opinion have low self esteem, or lack a real strong inner sense of self assurance on a certain level. And their sensitivity is derived from the fact that it causes them to feel guilty. No one wants to feel guilty for something they lack. If you make someone aware of something they are not, it offends them, it angers them. The pain converts itself to anger and rage. And that's what they vent these hostilities.

[Rudolphuss]

Great quotes, Jules. So what do you guys think about them?

[Kingston]

i never really liked joe lewis, he is kind of full of himself.

But i have no reason not to believe what he is saying.

whether its his personal interpretation of the "truth" who knows....

nothing he said seemed unbelievable.

Bruce lee made some great contributions to MA's, but the fact is, he is over rated.

[sercuerdas]

i think because joe was good before he met bruce he can give a more balanced account of his abilities. he just not in aww of bruce and sees him as a man. he gives bruce credit for his strong points, but also acknowledges the openings in his game.

[darrianation]

From the artical- This Bruce Lee info is from the Oakland School sessions which Howard Williams, Bob Baker etc attended : - Key : Better to make miss an inch to a mile than to block. To block is to get hit. Don't engage opponent, disengage him. e.g. don't tangle yourself in blocking and trapping movements. The whole idea is to intercept his physical an emotional intent to hurt you. So even back then Bruce was against trapping but could still use the skill as a last resort. I needed to comment on that to make sure that everyone understands Bruce's way of teaching was not emphasized on trapping even though he was extremely skilled in the art. But if Bruce needed to trap he could do so.

"Joe Lewis: Honestly, and this might come as a shock to a lot of people-he thought it was a bunch of garbage. And he told me at one time that he was going to gradually phase it out of his system. He might do a single trap or like a little obstruction which you see certain pro boxers doing from time to time. This double and triple trapping stuff is nonsense. If you've got time to trap, you've got time to hit. When you get close enough to an opponent where you can trap, there are 3 things you don't do-1-You don't trap 2-you don't cover 3- you don't move-you hit first, then you trap, cover or move. I mentioned it before-on the outside or inside you want to practice getting off first. "

I think this is very interesting. Someone should tell Paul Vulnick (sp?) about this.

[akja]

Originally posted by Rudolphuss
Guys, I've heard that Joe Lewis is one of the greatest Karate practitioners and kickboxers in the world, and has contributed a lot to martial arts. I hope you'll like this interview, in which he talked in depth about his relationship with Bruce.

http://www.joelewiskarate.com/joe-lewis/faq.asp

So what do you think about this interview? Do you think Bruce Lee was overrated?

I don't know how many of you guys happen to know about Joe Lewis's teaching curriculum but I'm going to give it to you right hear and now with the link to see for your self and if it will fit I'm going to paste it in.

Jun Fan Gung-Fu / Jeet Kune Do came before Joe Lewis Fighting Systems and when Joe new Bruce he was a "Karate" fighter evolving into Kickboxing and our first kickboxing champion but he did not have his own system at that time quite yet, at least not yet defined in "writing."

His system is JKD in disguise! Read it for yourselves!

http://www.kenpousa.com/lewis.htm

JOE LEWIS FREEFIGHTING SYSTEM
Setups

Positioning

Independent Movement

Initial Speed

Critical Distance Line

Line of Attack

Bridging the Gap

Five Primary Techniques

Leading Side Versus Rear Side

Economy of Motion

Relaxation Versus Tension

Mobility Versus Immobility

Extension, Hyper-Extension, Double Hyper-Extension

Leading Centers

Unpredictability Versus Classical Form

Straight Line Versus Curved Line

Defensive Choices

Initial Speed Versus Combinations

Faking

Constant Forward Pressure

Time Commitment Theory

Defensive Movement Patterns

Angle of Attack Versus Technique Variation

Half Commitment, Full Commitment, Extension Commitment

Theory of Broken Rhythm


1. SETUPS


1. Set yourself up physically and mentally.


Raise your energy level.

Use sparring partner for timing and distance.

Practice external focus.
2. Set up opponent verbally.


Confuse him.

Psyche him out.

3. Set up your opponent through body language.


Mislead him.

Frighten him.
2. POSITIONING


1. Position for mobility.

Keep in mind Constant Forward Pressure.

Be capable of moving offensively or defensively.

2. Position for distance.


Keep in mind your opponent's critical distance line when positioning.

Be able to bridge the gap effectively from your position.

3. Position for best defensive capability.


Keep in mind your defensive choices.

Keep all vital areas covered constantly.

4. Position for best offensive capability.


Keep in mind your line of attack.

Be in a relaxed state that you can explode out of.

5. Position with the right psychological attitude.


Be assertive.

Be active or passive according to how you want to set him up.
3. INDEPENDENT MOVEMENT


Strike moves independent of body and body follows.

No tell-tale leading centers.

Keep in mind relaxation versus tension.

Keep in mind initial speed and direct angle of attack.

Independent movement should be used with all five primary techniques.
4. INITIAL SPEED


Relax--Explode.

More important that timing speed or natural speed (MPH).
5. CRITICAL DISTANCE LINE


Your opponent's effective killing range is the critical distance line.

Your ability in bridging the gap will determine where you position yourself in relation to your opponent's critical distance line.
6. LINE OF ATTACK


INSIDE.

OUTSIDE.

MIDDLE.
7. BRIDGING THE GAP


Initial speed and proper footwork are the two most important principles involved in bridging the gap.

Keep in mind critical distance line.

Keep in mind extension, hyper-extension and double hyper-extension.

Keep in mind half commitment, full commitment and extension commitment.
8. FIVE PRIMARY TECHNIQUES


Sidefist or backfist (Leading side).

Inverted close punch (Leading side).

Reverse punch (Rear side).

Side kick or roundhouse (Wheel) kick (Leading side).

Spinning rear kick (Rear leg).
9. LEADING SIDE VERSUS REAR SIDE


Economy of motion in terms of shorter distance.

Bridges the gap faster.

Helps cut out leading centers.

Most of the five primary techniques come off the leading side.
10. ECONOMY OF MOTION


Keep in mind straight line versus curved line.

Keep in mind leading side versus rear side.

Concentrates on the direct angle of attack because economizes on movement and lessens the time commitment.
11. RELAXATION VERSUS TENSION


Initial speed increases.

Time commitment is less with fast initial speed.

Conserves energy.

More deceptive with less leading centers.
12. MOBILITY VERSUS IMMOBILITY


1. Footwork.


Basic stepping

Hopping

Switch stepping

Creeping

Shuffling

2. Directions.


Vertical.

Horizontal.

Arcing (Off angle).

3. With mobility there is more deceptiveness and unpredictability.

13. EXTENSION, HYPER-EXTENSION, DOUBLE HYPER-EXTENSION


Your own critical distance line increases if double hyper-extension is used.

Your ability to bridge the gap is more effective.

Keep in mind half commitment, full commitment, extension commitment.
14. LEADING CENTERS


In most of your techniques you should use independent motion and cut out all leading centers.

Leading centers can be used purposely in faking and broken rhythm.
15. UNPREDICTABILITY VERSUS CLASSICAL FORM


Use leading centers for faking and keeping your opponent off balance and jumpy.

Mobility is more unpredictable, keep moving using different kinds of

footwork and directions.

Use different kinds of broken rhythm.

Be interchangeable with straight lines and curved lines.

Be flexible with the different angles of attack.
16. STRAIGHT LINE VERSUS CURVED LINE


The most direct route to your target is a straight line.

A straight line attack is more powerful and economizes motion.

Most of the five primary techniques utilize a straight line of attack.
17. DEFENSIVE CHOICES


Hand and body positioning is a matter of preference with the individual as long as the vital areas are covered at all times.

There are four defensive movement patterns that can be used according to the size, structure and fighting attitude of the person using them; your opponent's size, technique, and footwork should also be a determining factor in what kind of defense you choose.

Be unpredictable and switch back and forth between the different defensive movement patterns to keep your opponent unsure of himself.
18. INITIAL SPEED VERSUS COMBINATIONS


Initial speed and the direct angle of attack are more spontaneous when you are externally focused.

Practice combinations is future thinking which is negative thinking.

Initial speed ties in with independent movement which gives us more

economy of movement.

There is less time commitment in the initial speed of the direct angle of attack.

A good portion of our practice and programming should be spent on initial speed and the direct angle of attack because it is one of the most important principles of them all.
19. FAKING


The main leading centers used in faking are:
Hip

Body

Shoulder

Faking is used in the direct angle of attack.

Faking makes your opponent commit himself and throws off his timing.

Faking is used in broken rhythm also and helps to increase your unpredictability.
20. CONSTANT FORWARD PRESSURE


Mental - assertiveness and external focus.

Physical - forward movement, offensive body positioning, and aggressive body language.

Result - Confusion.
21. TIME COMMITMENT THEORY


Keep in mind initial speed.

Bridge the gap with straight lines and direct angles of attack.

Keep in mind your opponents timing and reaction time, how much time does your technique take to complete in comparison to the time it takes for your opponent to react and counter.
22. DEFENSIVE MOVEMENT PATTERNS


1. Jammer - moves forward.


Use the direct angle of attack against a Jammer.

Use broken rhythm (move in with a body fake to draw him, move back as he tries to jam, and kick him as you retreat or move back into him).

2. Blocker - stays in position or moves a half step back.


80% of all fighters are blockers.

Use all five angles of attack against a blocker.

3. Runner - moves backward out of original position.


Use the direct angle of attack and hit him before he runs.

Use a combination and follow him.

Use broken rhythm (active - he runs, active - he runs, passive - hit him before he runs).

4. Elusive runner - moves all over and is unpredictable.


Set him up.

Wait until he comes to you.

5. Name your opponent by his footwork and by where he is at your point of contact with him.


He may be a jammer and intended to jam your move, but if you nailed him before he moved he is a blocker.

23. ANGLE OF ATTACK VERSUS TECHNIQUE VARIATION


If you can't make a technique work, change your angle of attack rather than change to a less effective technique.

Direct - Initial speed and independent motion.

Indirect - Fakes.

Combinations - Direct and Indirect.

Broken rhythm.
24. HALF COMMITMENT, FULL COMMITMENT, EXTENSION COMMITMENT


Set your opponent up with broken patterns (Full commitment-doesn't reach him, full
commitment-doesn't reach him, extension commitment-nail him by bridging the gap.

Be unpredictable and throw his timing and distance off.

Keep in mind extension, hyper-extension, and double hyper-extension.
25. THEORY OF BROKEN RHYTHM


Change target (low, low, high).

Change body rhythm (active, active, passive).

Change body motion (forward, backward, forward).

Change speed fast to slow to fast).

Change movement (stop, go).

Change angle of attack.

Change techniques.

Change positioning and set him up.

Change patterns of any sort.

Change attitude (aggressive, passive).

Change your defensive choice.

Change your footwork.

Change your commitment.

Change your line of attack (inside, inside, outside).

Be totally unpredictable with broken rhythm and throw your opponents timing totally off.

Anyone who "REALLY" knows and understands JKD knows that Joe is taking credit for Bruces work!!

In my opinion Joe is using his fame to sell his program that he adverises in the magazines for $30 you can receive a video from him every month.

[Rudolphuss]

OMG, you're right. It is Jeet Kune Do. Lewis pretty much photo-copied this list off Lee's teaching:

Setups
Positioning
Independent Movement
Initial Speed
Critical Distance Line
Line of Attack
Bridging the Gap
Five Primary Techniques
Leading Side Versus Rear Side
Economy of Motion
Relaxation Versus Tension
Mobility Versus Immobility
Extension, Hyper-Extension, Double Hyper-Extension
Leading Centers
Unpredictability Versus Classical Form
Straight Line Versus Curved Line
Defensive Choices
Initial Speed Versus Combinations
Faking
Constant Forward Pressure
Time Commitment Theory
Defensive Movement Patterns
Angle of Attack Versus Technique Variation
Half Commitment, Full Commitment, Extension Commitment
Theory of Broken Rhythm

I can identify a lot of these concepts from Lee's teachings. Lewis didn't even bother to change the names of these concepts (economy of motion, broken rhythm, faking, unpredictability vs classical form, etc). What a thief.

[akja]

Originally posted by Rudolphuss
OMG, you're right. It is Jeet Kune Do. Lewis pretty much photo-copied this list off Lee's teaching:


I can identify a lot of these concepts from Lee's teachings. Lewis didn't even bother to change the names of these concepts (economy of motion, broken rhythm, faking, unpredictability vs classical form, etc). What a thief.

In the tradition of JKD he didn't do anything wrong EXCEPT give Bruce his do credit and acted like he didn't learn anything from Bruce.

Bruce was not the almighty, but when he was alive he definately was on the right track of "modernizing" his martial art much faster the the "majority" of martial art instructors of that time.

[brokenelbow]

Setups
Positioning
Independent Movement
Initial Speed
Critical Distance Line
Line of Attack
Bridging the Gap
Five Primary Techniques
Leading Side Versus Rear Side
Economy of Motion
Relaxation Versus Tension
Mobility Versus Immobility
Extension, Hyper-Extension, Double Hyper-Extension
Leading Centers
Unpredictability Versus Classical Form
Straight Line Versus Curved Line
Defensive Choices
Initial Speed Versus Combinations
Faking
Constant Forward Pressure
Time Commitment Theory
Defensive Movement Patterns
Angle of Attack Versus Technique Variation
Half Commitment, Full Commitment, Extension Commitment
Theory of Broken Rhythm

From the list I think Bruce Lee invented Tai Chi Chuan.

[Rudolphuss]

In the tradition of JKD he didn't do anything wrong EXCEPT give Bruce his do credit and acted like he didn't learn anything from Bruce.

Well, it's easy to steal from someone who's been dead for 30 years. It's not like Bruce Lee is gonna knock on his door and demand credit.

[sercuerdas]

that list is going to relate to a lot of fighting styles. there is truth of fighting and bruce wasn't the only one to figure it out. the fma's had many of these things before anyone knew who bruce lee was.

[IPON]

IMHO Joe Lewis is cocky (knows it and freely admits it) but the things he said seemed to be unbias and somewhat logical. The only part I still don't understand is why they would meet so frequently and not sparr, and that they were close enough for Lee to make Lewis his "spy" for other styles but Lee didn't pick up the phone to ask him to be in ETD. regarding Lewis's training I don't know about copying JKD he probably did but you can make the same argument about Lee with Wing Chun. But the article didn't seem tlike he was downing Bruce or advocating his system over JKD (specigfically at least) the reality is there is a lot of terrible JKD, alot of people learn it through seminar and video with no prior experience in MA. The "non classical" system is taught rigidly and classically. So while Lewis's comments may not be 100% correct about moder JKD he is not far off.

Regarding Lee, I do think it is what Lewis said the media made Lee a God (and of Le e diodn't deny it), but Lee himself never said he was the best as a fighter. So I don't think the reality of Lee was overrated.