Dumog

[HungryWolf21]

Does anybody have any idea what the Filipino martial art of Dumog is all about? I have noticed that Vunak has a training tape devoted to it. How is it similar/different from other grappling arts and will it improve other facets of my overall game (clinch, ground, etc.)?

[sikal]

Originally posted by HungryWolf21
Does anybody have any idea what the Filipino martial art of Dumog is all about? I have noticed that Vunak has a training tape devoted to it. How is it similar/different from other grappling arts and will it improve other facets of my overall game (clinch, ground, etc.)?

My exposure to dumog has been relatively limited ... but then so has my exposure to other grappling arts :-) However, from what I've seen it's not particularly different from other grappling arts. Like everything else in the FMA, they always consider weapons. Also, dumog concepts are used in places other than just grappling. For instance, dumog concepts are used in Pangamut (Filipino boxing) to push/pull the opponent into strikes and to control the opponent's weapons.

Regards, Mike

[Chad W. Getz]

I remember reading once, that dumog was more so an ethnical game, more common in one region then another. The game to be similar to sumo wrestling. The objective to move the other person out of the circle. Understanding these terms, one can translate this "concept" to fighting, and describe it as an art categorized to move someone to and from you, rather than you moving to and from them. Control of the head, neck, shoulders, elbow, hip points, knees, ankles, and other areas. It's an art so minute as to include the use of your knee and foot in a controling method against a leg. It has a strong practical use in the clinching, and I also believe has validity in grappling/groundfighting.

[Demi Barbito]

We are putting out another video in about a month. In the new video we will be doing, among other things, "Dumog" as applied to extreme close quarter combat.

Check out the website for updates;

http://www.DemiBarbito.com

[HungryWolf21]

Thanks ya'll for the information. It really helped a lot.

[Stickgrappler]

Joe Maffei wrote an article in the defunct FULL CONTACT magazine, which he put up to his site: http://www.jmjkd.com

Check out: http://www.jmjkd.com/full.htm for the dumog article.

HTH.

[HungryWolf21]

Thanks for the article Stick. The information really helped a lot. Looks like that Dumog would be a good compliment art to Greco-Roman or Jiu-Jitsu.

[Chad W. Getz]

Originally posted by HungryWolf21
Thanks for the article Stick. The information really helped a lot. Looks like that Dumog would be a good compliment art to Greco-Roman or Jiu-Jitsu.

Actually, dumog has helped me with grappling by helping to gain position. In the clinch, dumog techniques have helped me to gain control at someone good at pummelling, etc. I've also found it helps me get someone from a MT clinch to a Roman Greco clinch(which is pretty hard to do against someone that doesn't want to). IMO, dumog is a very good art that is a very good and realistic way to support effective trapping, clinching, and grappling.

Stickgrappler, I checked out the web site, and it is the article that I have a black and white xerox copy of that must have been copied over 10 times generation by the time it got to me. I never knew this, but I recognize him now as one of the guys in Paul Vunak's Pananjakman tape. BTW, Hungry Wolf, take a look at Paul Vunak's Dumog tape. It only goes over a few techniques and explains the principles behind them well. Watch closely though, because there is alot he doesn't say that you can pick up.

[Edited by Chad W. Getz on 12-07-2000 at 03:08 PM]

[HungryWolf21]

Actually, dumog has helped me with grappling by helping to gain position. In the clinch, dumog techniques have helped me to gain control at someone good at pummelling, etc.
[Edited by Chad W. Getz on 12-07-2000 at 03:08 PM] [/B][/QUOTE]


Does training in Dumog have any energy drills that are similar to the Greco-Roman pummel?

[Stickgrappler]

Chad,

email me if you want a photocopy of the article. i have the orig mag and will dig it up for you if you want.

yes, i think joe maffei branched off from Vu, but early on, you see him in most of the PFS vids.

Hy

[Chad W. Getz]

Thanks, Hy, but since I found the site via your link, I just printed it, I haven't read thatarticle in years, and it brought back some memories. Grat web site you've got there, BTW, I always enjoy checking it out.

HungryWolf, Paul shows alot of the of his reference points out of the Hubud drill. One particular technique that you can try working is controlling the elbow(his left arm-your right hand/his right arm-your left hand) from the outside, palm facing up. You can try this position out of hubud, or pumelling, or clinching, etc. Dumog, my interpretation, is an art that will move a person to(pulling someone by the bicep into you) or from(pushing someone at the hip) you with minimium effort, or control a person body(the elbow monitoring technique explained above).

Alot of silat takedowns incorporate more than one dumog principles at once as part of the takedown, if not the majority of it. Maybe Mike can expand here. I personally like to work my dumog more out of the clinch, takedowns, and groundfighting. The ethnic game as I've read up on, is one similar to Sumo with the same end goal. Combatual it is a small part of the whole that is often overlooked, but I believe, can make a big difference. Hope that helps. You can e-mail me or call me if you had any more questions in particular, if you want.

[sikal]

Originally posted by Chad W. Getz
Alot of silat takedowns incorporate more than one dumog principles at once as part of the takedown, if not the majority of it. Maybe Mike can expand here. I personally like to work my dumog more out of the clinch, takedowns, and groundfighting. The ethnic game as I've read up on, is one similar to Sumo with the same end goal. Combatual it is a small part of the whole that is often overlooked, but I believe, can make a big difference. Hope that helps. You can e-mail me or call me if you had any more questions in particular, if you want.

Yes, this is true ... though Silat doesn't call it "dumog" :-) They share a lot of principles ... and that's why so many people have found them so complimentary to each other.

To expand some, Silat uses a lot of pushing and pulling (or striking and jerking as it often becomes at speed) to upset the balance and set the person up for a takedown. For instance, if you put your right hand on someone's forehead and your left hand in the middle of their back, then push them in opposite directions (i.e.: his head back and his back foreward), this disrupts his balance. Once his head is out of alignment with his hips, push straight down and down he goes. This is a very simple illustration and is, of course, found in a lot of other arts.

One of the best descriptions of this principles I've seen was by Guru Roberto Torres on one of his videos. He explains that there are triangles everywhere (triangles are rife throughout the Filipino and Indonesian arts ... though the applications of these triangles is sometimes different). So, if, in the above description, you imagine his forehead as the point of a triangle and the middle of his back as the base of the triangle, then you flip the triangle over. This same method can be applied in a lot of ways. The standard single leg takedown can be viewed this way (i.e.: their hip socket/upper thigh is the base of the triangle and their ankle is the point). This is often how Silat applies the principles that Kali refers to as "dumog." This doesn't always produce the takedown itself but rather it sets them up to be taken down :-)

As you can probably guess ('cause the average I.Q. here is above average), there's more to it than this ... but this is the best I can do in this medium. Hopefully it was good enough :-)

Regards, Mike

[sikal]

Originally posted by sikal

Yes, this is true ... though Silat doesn't call it "dumog" :-) They share a lot of principles ... and that's why so many people have found them so complimentary to each other.

To expand some, Silat uses a lot of pushing and pulling (or striking and jerking as it often becomes at speed) to upset the balance and set the person up for a takedown. For instance, if you put your right hand on someone's forehead and your left hand in the middle of their back, then push them in opposite directions (i.e.: his head back and his back foreward), this disrupts his balance. Once his head is out of alignment with his hips, push straight down and down he goes. This is a very simple illustration and is, of course, found in a lot of other arts.

One of the best descriptions of this principles I've seen was by Guru Roberto Torres on one of his videos. He explains that there are triangles everywhere (triangles are rife throughout the Filipino and Indonesian arts ... though the applications of these triangles is sometimes different). So, if, in the above description, you imagine his forehead as the point of a triangle and the middle of his back as the base of the triangle, then you flip the triangle over. This same method can be applied in a lot of ways. The standard single leg takedown can be viewed this way (i.e.: their hip socket/upper thigh is the base of the triangle and their ankle is the point). This is often how Silat applies the principles that Kali refers to as "dumog." This doesn't always produce the takedown itself but rather it sets them up to be taken down :-)

As you can probably guess ('cause y'all seem to be a pretty smart bunch o' cookies), there's more to it than this ... but this is the best I can do in this medium. Hopefully it was good enough :-)

Regards, Mike

[Stickgrappler]

chad,

sorry, i did not check out that link in awhile, i thought it was like the knifegrappling article where it was not that clear and the article was scanned in as a gif or jpg. the dumog article was html'ized, imagine my embarassment when i checked out the link after i posted my offer :-)

thanks on compliment on my site - it still needs more work, and will update this weekend, first off with links to your site (finally, sorry for delay - i promised in an email ages ago :-) and other stuff.

all,

i have a friend who learned some fut sao WCK and he showed me something called "chut sing kum na" which is cantonese for 7 star chin na. no surprise, some of it looked just the dumog's bicep's pull/push, and head push/twist. the human body is the same whether you are chinese or filipino or ... and there is a finite amount of ways to move the body. most cultures/styles probably have similar stuff.

[HungryWolf21]

Hey Chad (and anybody else that may be able to give me info), I have yet one more question to ask. I remember reading in an article (it was probably on Vunak's website or some other PFS site) where Vunak talks about applying techniques out of the "Dumog clinch." How does this clinch differ from say, the Thai clinch or the Greco clinch?