Eye attacks

[Drew Howe]

Originally posted by jubaji
I wonder how many hapless schlemiels have been put through a wall while trying to scratch at someone's eyes while that someone was busy kicking their ass?

It really is a matter of training. Kenpo/Kempo through Ed Parker really started breaking ground on fluid and rapid head attacks focusing on eye rakes - gouges, elbows, etc. Just recently, Richard Dimitri and Sammy Franco have taken this concept a step further. Viewing their material, I realized just how effective this style of attack is. I guess you could say I rediscovered some great stuff. If you are at all interested in this you should get your hands on Dimitri's Shredder program and Sammy Franco's Widowmaker program. I really am partial to Franco's system because it reminds me of some things that Ed Parker used to teach. It's also lead to me barrowing from Franco's program to develop my own similar system of attack. I can't say enough about how simple but scary effective this stuff really is.

[kengar]

I wonder how many hapless schlemiels have been put through a wall while trying to scratch at someone's eyes while that someone was busy kicking their ass?

It is a tool, I say again, a tool. It would be ignorant to think someone would stand still only trying to "scratch at someone's eyes" and not using any other strikes.

[Drew Howe]

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[IPON]

Originally posted by Drew Howe
Mix in the concept of economy of motion along with elbows, throat attacks, biting, etc., and you have yourself one hell of a lethal system. It is very hard to describe, which is why I suggest buying Sammy Franco's WidowMaker program. Of course, if I ever get my act together, I'll soon have my MQ2™ put to video and then I'll recommend that.

And I assume that this is to be used as a life and death situation not a first line of attack..right

Wow will sam franco really show us how to bite somone...yeah

throat attacks and biting sound like Dracula

[Drew Howe]

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[Ryu (JKD?)]

It's weird the misunderstandings that abound about these types of tactics.

I'm a strong advocate now of Rich Dimitri's shredder. I use it often in full out sparring with headgear with great success. Both on my feet and on the ground.

In order for anyone to effectively attack the eyes, throat, bite, etc. they have to do one of two things. period.

1. The attack needs to be launched as a surprise when the opponent doesn't expect it. As a pre-emptive move in the pre-fight stages of an assault.

2. The attack must be used in conjunction with a well trained, well experienced, realistic delivery system in the standing, clinching, and groundfighting ranges. Period.

Just like anything else in the martial arts world, if you don't train it, you won't think to use it in a real situation.
Anyone can bite and eye gouge.

The skilled grappler who spends hours a day on both grappling AND how to effectively gouge, bite, and attack vitals will be better prepared to actually do it then the grappler who does not train these things often.
(This means training full out with protection on the eyes, etc.)

Why? Because the grappler who trains it will find out through hours and hours upon days and days of experience what most people's reactions will be, how to effectively trap people into position to do these tactics so they can't get away, how to counter people's attempts to stop these tactics, what positions on the ground are better suited for these tactics, etc.

The person who doesn't train them cannot have that experience instilled in him simply because "anyone can bite and gouge."

Anyone can punch too, but trained boxers are the ones who can "punch" the best.

Ryu

[Drew Howe]

Well said Ryu!

[Thai Bri]

"In order for anyone to effectively attack the eyes, throat, bite, etc. they have to do one of two things. period.

1. The attack needs to be launched as a surprise when the opponent doesn't expect it. As a pre-emptive move in the pre-fight stages of an assault.

2. The attack must be used in conjunction with a well trained, well experienced, realistic delivery system in the standing, clinching, and groundfighting ranges. Period."


I agree with number 2. But I most certainly do not agree with number 1. Yes, they could work that way, but they could also work mid fight.

[Thai Bri]

ps - Drew. Can you tell us a little more about your "Quelling"?

[Drew Howe]

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[Ryu (JKD?)]

Originally posted by Thai Bri
"In order for anyone to effectively attack the eyes, throat, bite, etc. they have to do one of two things. period.

1. The attack needs to be launched as a surprise when the opponent doesn't expect it. As a pre-emptive move in the pre-fight stages of an assault.

2. The attack must be used in conjunction with a well trained, well experienced, realistic delivery system in the standing, clinching, and groundfighting ranges. Period."


I agree with number 2. But I most certainly do not agree with number 1. Yes, they could work that way, but they could also work mid fight.

Bri,
What I meant was that if they work in mid fight it's probably because of proper delivery systems. Which would be #2.

Ryu

[Thai Bri]

Fair enough. I will not deduct points on this occasion.

[Aaron]

Hey Ryu, have you trained with Dmitri or Franco? I have heard they are pretty good. I know you have trained with Vunak, how do they compare? This might seem a little childish, but who would win in a streetfight between them, Franco or Vunak? Dmitri or Vunak?

I have trained with Vunak too, he's definetly capable of unleashing some serious firepower in a streetfight.

[jubaji]

Originally posted by Drew Howe


Sure. The art of Quelling, much like Sammy Franco's Razing, is basically a serious of eye rakes, gouges, elbow/forarm strikes, head butts, palm strikes, biting, wind pipe crushes etc., including knee strikes to the groin. This is done while glued/anchored to the bad guy, and done in a rapid and repetitive sequence.

So, it is a system that teaches people to get their asses kicked.

[Ryu (JKD?)]

Originally posted by Aaron
Hey Ryu, have you trained with Dmitri or Franco? I have heard they are pretty good. I know you have trained with Vunak, how do they compare? This might seem a little childish, but who would win in a streetfight between them, Franco or Vunak? Dmitri or Vunak?

I have trained with Vunak too, he's definetly capable of unleashing some serious firepower in a streetfight.

Hey there, Aaron.
I am trying to find some time to go up to Montreal and train with Rich. I have not had the privilege of training with Mr. Dimitri or Mr. Franco, but have conversed with them over the past year or so, and have much of their material.
And yep, I'm a Full Instructor under Voo.

As far as your second question, LOL....I've got no idea.
It's not something that's going to happen.

I will say this.
They all can beat me up in a streetfight.


Ryu