TKD school questions - Page 2

bvermillion · 01-22-2004, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sasami2000

Oh yes...I remember when I was very loyal to the ATA. I've been to a lot of ATA schools and a lot of tournaments. I've seen instructors advertise that they could "make you a black belt in 1 year" and then they tested them every month. In fact, I really have NEVER met an ATA black belt that took more than 2 years to get a black belt EVER. (Minus ones that hardly attended class and traveled a lot) Everyone is tested every two months. It's not like any of those forms or one steps are hard, and the board breaks (on the plastic boards) are not hard. I've even seen instructors give out a black belt to a purple belt so that he could go start a class/school and test up for his black belt. I can go to elemetary schools and find black belts in kindergarden and 3rd degree black belts in the 6th grade, does that not seem wrong to you? 2 Years ago the ATA actually made a separate division for 5-6 year old black belts because they were growing in number so much. My family even bought the KFK/Tiny Tigers franchise, so I know about their step by step method of making money. "Follow our way because we have 30 years of tested experience". I tried to memorize the pitch book, but even then as a teenager I knew it was propaganda. Every KFK instructor I know works at his school full time and is making a lot of money, and that's all they are doing. The ATA jacks up the prices on everything; you wouldn't believe how much they make off you at every step of the way. Point sparring is the most contact I've ever seen, a lot of them were not allowed to contact until black belt. And in the schools that allowed a little contact you couldn't hit to the head, trip, throw, hit below the belt, hit to the back, tackle, etc. The last one I saw was sad; no one could stop a punch or kick to the head because they always anticipated the attacker to stop the attack. Oh and those self defense techniques? LOL!
The facts are the ATA has become a money making business, set up so that once you get black belt they are going to be encouraging you to get your own school, that way your instructor will make money off of you. The majority are belt factories or Mc Dojos, plain and simple. There are maybe a few out there that are alright.

OK. If you are going to argue a point with me lets use facts not lies. The ATA rules for sparring dont' change they are the same from tournament to tournament.You cant punch to the head or back. Of course that isn't real world fighting. But neither is any other TKD. Unless it is modified. The ATA has great program for kids. The ATA is about personal victory. It is sorta like the army they say the person you become is better then who you were. If you find a good instructor then there will be great oppurtunities for you as an adult as well. TAEKWONDO is TAEKWONDO I dont care where you go it is the same maybe differen't rules and maybe different instructors will suck or emphasize different aspects of TAEKWONDO but taekwondo is still taekwondo. I signed up for TKD because I like the kicks I guarantee I can make alot of them work in a self defense situation. Within reason I am not gonna come at you with a jump reverse hook kick. Taekwondo has alot to offer you just have to be smart enough to know how to work it. I have also been lucky to have an instructor who is interested in other arts and other aspects of martial arts. Oh and a black belt in a year it might of happened but the ATA requires atleast 21 classes to test. My instructor requires 30. We only test every 8 weeks if you are ready. And once you are at camo belt you only half step then full step in 16 weeks. When it comes to Takewondo the ATA is great when it comes to fighting or self defense probably not. I would love to see some of these cocky people that believe Muah Thai beats all come down to KY and go a few rounds with some of are black belts. Our adult black belts are required to have a good understanding of martial arts not just taekwondo. If you can't grapple worth a crap then my instructor isn't going to give you a black belt. If you can't execute the throws and takedowns he teaches you don't move up. Its that simple. In closing I will say the ATA is good at what it does. Not many organizations can boast 30 yrs of service or the numbers we have.

Spookey · 01-22-2004, 10:52 PM

Dear Sir,

Oh Do Kwan!!!!!!!!! I know much about the Oh Do Kwan...you stated very true history (or at least you copy and paste good info).

As relates to your comment that if an instructor were to have cross trained maybe he could cover a broader fighting range.

History Lesson: Gen. Choi left the Oh Do Kwan (which he was the MY in "Gym of MY WAY") after introducing the Ch'ang Hon Hyungs...He formed the ITF...Later the WTF was formed by the RoK. Several of the first and second generation WTF masters were trained under Gen. Choi and Nam Tae Hi at the Oh Do Kwan...they went on to become ITF masters and then WTF Masters!
The Oh Do Kwan taught (and the ITF still teaches) joint destruction, releases, ect.

TAEKWON!

Sasami2000 · 01-23-2004, 01:41 AM

"The ATA rules for sparring dont' change they are the same from tournament to tournament.You cant punch to the head or back. Of course that isn't real world fighting. But neither is any other TKD. "

I NEVER said the sparring changed in tournaments. Go reread my post if you thougt so. I said that they had created another division for 5-6 black belts because they had so many of them. That's not a lie; it's a fact. From your own magazine as well. (It's for National tournaments, I believe) The sparring part I discussed was how most instructors have their students spar in class. The everyday sparring that I've seen is essentially like point sparring; watered down with so many rules that it's no different than dancing.

"The ATA has great program for kids. The ATA is about personal victory."
I have nothing against K4K or Tiny Tigers, however I don't like how it is run like a business for the purpose of making money instead of teaching martial arts.

" TAEKWONDO is TAEKWONDO I dont care where you go it is the same maybe differen't rules and maybe different instructors will suck or emphasize different aspects of TAEKWONDO but taekwondo is still taekwondo. "

That's true. It's just most ATA instructors are out there for money, and because they want everyone happy and staying; they make it easy to test quickly and water down the rules in sparring so that there is no chance anyone is hurt.

"I signed up for TKD because I like the kicks I guarantee I can make alot of them work in a self defense situation. "

good for you, I'm not doubting you.

" Oh and a black belt in a year it might of happened but the ATA requires atleast 21 classes to test. My instructor requires 30. "

It happens ALL the time; like I said there's an entire school of them where I came from. He even advertises it, and I've seen it for years. He tests them EVERY month. Yes I know the ATA says they have requirements for how many classes you have to have, but it's just bull. They don't care. Believe me, I was a certified trainee instructor. No senior official calls the school owner going "Hey! This John Smith can't pass! He's 2 classes short of the requirement!" They don't care, it just something your instructor says to get you to come to class.

"I would love to see some of these cocky people that believe Muah Thai beats all come down to KY and go a few rounds with some of are black belts."
I'm not a cocky MT person; in fact I argue against them all the time. I'm just not a fan of the ATA's business ethics, per say.

" Our adult black belts are required to have a good understanding of martial arts not just taekwondo. If you can't grapple worth a crap then my instructor isn't going to give you a black belt. If you can't execute the throws and takedowns he teaches you don't move up. Its that simple."

That's good for you and your school, however that is not like most ATA schools.

"In closing I will say the ATA is good at what it does. Not many organizations can boast 30 yrs of service or the numbers we have."

The ATA only has so many people because they run an effective business.

bvermillion · 01-23-2004, 08:24 AM

I agree with most of what you said so I wont write a big story this time. I do believe that you stated some incorrect rules about sparring but thats it. The ata is a business orginization I never denied that. The way the ATA is run is a great concept it is just that they don't offer the greatest product in the world. Depending what you want out of the martial arts the ATA can meet your needs.

Damian Mavis · 01-23-2004, 08:51 AM

Honesty will always be well respected. Unfortunately many organisations and/or schools simply lie and misrepresent to make money, and it works.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

eXcessiveForce · 01-26-2004, 10:06 PM

why jump?

Simple, If you don't the kick is harder and it's easy to get knocked off balance if all your weight is planted on the ground. When one leg is planted that is where your balance is. People can then attack the base leg and disrupt an attack. A small jump improves balance because you only have to concentrate on landing. So a push only makes it a little tougher to land but doesn't knock you over. Sweeps will not work. and leg kicks to the base leg won't work because there is no base leg.

You do have to worry about grabbing though.

Jump kicks are not about kicking higher or looking flashy. they have a purpose just like an uppercut. You don't go in throwing uppercuts but they come in handy once in awhile.

Green Ranger · 03-12-2004, 06:35 PM

[quote=bvermillion]I would personally reccommend the American Taekwondo Association...

I also attend class at an ATA school. I like it, but it is definately a family orgainzation. It offers plenty of competion and is a good operation. It may not be intense enough for ya though, but then agian, it could be exactly what yer lookin for.

GR

sirmattu · 06-21-2004, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MyEmptyHands

hi there is a TKD school pretty close to my house and i was thinking of what questions i should ask and what should i look for? and another thing ive alwas wanted to see what TKD was about and take a class in it but from what every one on this forum say is that it really sucks.

p.s what is the best style of TKD to get in to.

just a tip for if you are thinking of taking tae kwon do don't focus on what organization it's affiliated with learn where the instructor learned tkd from........ the school that i take it at is,nt affiliated with any group and yet it's still the best school in the area.

Spookey · 06-21-2004, 11:11 PM

Dear Sir,

Do to political strife, many instructors have moved from one organization to another. Some have formed their own small organizations, and some are completely independent.

These men made the choices they made to suit them and benefit their students (at least most). The instructors age versus where he or she learned TKD will speak the most as to their curricullum influences!

Just for instance, my instructor holds certificates from the Oh Do Kwan, ITF, Kukkiwon, and KTA (before the inception of the Kukkiwon).

However, his primary instruction was during war and received from the Oh Do Kwan. He (some 35+ years later) still teaches the traditional combat art as instructed by the Oh Do Kwan...while including some progressive changes instituted by the ITF...

This is how/what he learned and what he teaches today!

TAEKWON!
Spookey

MAfans · 10-24-2004, 11:46 AM

U should meet the instructor and talk about what you need.
I'll suscribe soon in a taewkon do school, it's a WTF and I dont give a f**k.
I told my self that the instructor is GM Chong Lee, 9th dan, he started taekwon do in Canada and he is training the canadian taekwon do team, so it cant sux.

01-22-2004, 10:52 PM	#17 (permalink)
Spookey Registered User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Southeastern, USA Posts: 200	Dear Maestro, Dear Sir, Oh Do Kwan!!!!!!!!! I know much about the Oh Do Kwan...you stated very true history (or at least you copy and paste good info). As relates to your comment that if an instructor were to have cross trained maybe he could cover a broader fighting range. History Lesson: Gen. Choi left the Oh Do Kwan (which he was the MY in "Gym of MY WAY") after introducing the Ch'ang Hon Hyungs...He formed the ITF...Later the WTF was formed by the RoK. Several of the first and second generation WTF masters were trained under Gen. Choi and Nam Tae Hi at the Oh Do Kwan...they went on to become ITF masters and then WTF Masters! The Oh Do Kwan taught (and the ITF still teaches) joint destruction, releases, ect. TAEKWON! Last edited by Spookey; 01-23-2004 at 12:18 PM. Reason: Lack of courtesy on posters part!

01-23-2004, 01:41 AM	#18 (permalink)
Sasami2000 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Idaho Posts: 46	"The ATA rules for sparring dont' change they are the same from tournament to tournament.You cant punch to the head or back. Of course that isn't real world fighting. But neither is any other TKD. " I NEVER said the sparring changed in tournaments. Go reread my post if you thougt so. I said that they had created another division for 5-6 black belts because they had so many of them. That's not a lie; it's a fact. From your own magazine as well. (It's for National tournaments, I believe) The sparring part I discussed was how most instructors have their students spar in class. The everyday sparring that I've seen is essentially like point sparring; watered down with so many rules that it's no different than dancing. "The ATA has great program for kids. The ATA is about personal victory." I have nothing against K4K or Tiny Tigers, however I don't like how it is run like a business for the purpose of making money instead of teaching martial arts. " TAEKWONDO is TAEKWONDO I dont care where you go it is the same maybe differen't rules and maybe different instructors will suck or emphasize different aspects of TAEKWONDO but taekwondo is still taekwondo. " That's true. It's just most ATA instructors are out there for money, and because they want everyone happy and staying; they make it easy to test quickly and water down the rules in sparring so that there is no chance anyone is hurt. "I signed up for TKD because I like the kicks I guarantee I can make alot of them work in a self defense situation. " good for you, I'm not doubting you. " Oh and a black belt in a year it might of happened but the ATA requires atleast 21 classes to test. My instructor requires 30. " It happens ALL the time; like I said there's an entire school of them where I came from. He even advertises it, and I've seen it for years. He tests them EVERY month. Yes I know the ATA says they have requirements for how many classes you have to have, but it's just bull. They don't care. Believe me, I was a certified trainee instructor. No senior official calls the school owner going "Hey! This John Smith can't pass! He's 2 classes short of the requirement!" They don't care, it just something your instructor says to get you to come to class. "I would love to see some of these cocky people that believe Muah Thai beats all come down to KY and go a few rounds with some of are black belts." I'm not a cocky MT person; in fact I argue against them all the time. I'm just not a fan of the ATA's business ethics, per say. " Our adult black belts are required to have a good understanding of martial arts not just taekwondo. If you can't grapple worth a crap then my instructor isn't going to give you a black belt. If you can't execute the throws and takedowns he teaches you don't move up. Its that simple." That's good for you and your school, however that is not like most ATA schools. "In closing I will say the ATA is good at what it does. Not many organizations can boast 30 yrs of service or the numbers we have." The ATA only has so many people because they run an effective business. __________________ The sword wielding family that slays together, stays together.

01-26-2004, 10:06 PM	#21 (permalink)
eXcessiveForce Excessive Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Missouri Posts: 2,688	why jump? Simple, If you don't the kick is harder and it's easy to get knocked off balance if all your weight is planted on the ground. When one leg is planted that is where your balance is. People can then attack the base leg and disrupt an attack. A small jump improves balance because you only have to concentrate on landing. So a push only makes it a little tougher to land but doesn't knock you over. Sweeps will not work. and leg kicks to the base leg won't work because there is no base leg. You do have to worry about grabbing though. Jump kicks are not about kicking higher or looking flashy. they have a purpose just like an uppercut. You don't go in throwing uppercuts but they come in handy once in awhile. __________________ eXcessiveFORCE. If you must use force, make it excessive.

06-21-2004, 11:11 PM	#24 (permalink)
Spookey Registered User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Southeastern, USA Posts: 200	I Second That! Dear Sir, Do to political strife, many instructors have moved from one organization to another. Some have formed their own small organizations, and some are completely independent. These men made the choices they made to suit them and benefit their students (at least most). The instructors age versus where he or she learned TKD will speak the most as to their curricullum influences! Just for instance, my instructor holds certificates from the Oh Do Kwan, ITF, Kukkiwon, and KTA (before the inception of the Kukkiwon). However, his primary instruction was during war and received from the Oh Do Kwan. He (some 35+ years later) still teaches the traditional combat art as instructed by the Oh Do Kwan...while including some progressive changes instituted by the ITF... This is how/what he learned and what he teaches today! TAEKWON! Spookey

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes	Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode	Rate This Thread:

01-23-2004, 08:24 AM	#19 (permalink)
bvermillion Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Reading, Ma Posts: 309	I agree with most of what you said so I wont write a big story this time. I do believe that you stated some incorrect rules about sparring but thats it. The ata is a business orginization I never denied that. The way the ATA is run is a great concept it is just that they don't offer the greatest product in the world. Depending what you want out of the martial arts the ATA can meet your needs.

01-23-2004, 08:51 AM	#20 (permalink)
Damian Mavis Registered User Join Date: May 2003 Location: Bangkok, Thailand Posts: 651	Honesty will always be well respected. Unfortunately many organisations and/or schools simply lie and misrepresent to make money, and it works. Damian Mavis Honour TKD

03-12-2004, 06:35 PM	#22 (permalink)
Green Ranger Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 34	[quote=bvermillion]I would personally reccommend the American Taekwondo Association... I also attend class at an ATA school. I like it, but it is definately a family orgainzation. It offers plenty of competion and is a good operation. It may not be intense enough for ya though, but then agian, it could be exactly what yer lookin for. GR

10-24-2004, 11:46 AM	#25 (permalink)
MAfans Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 31	U should meet the instructor and talk about what you need. I'll suscribe soon in a taewkon do school, it's a WTF and I dont give a f**k. I told my self that the instructor is GM Chong Lee, 9th dan, he started taekwon do in Canada and he is training the canadian taekwon do team, so it cant sux.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
No Mercy, No Escape!	William	Thaiboxing and Kickboxing	35	08-13-2006 06:50 PM
TKD Master who found that tkd does not teach fighting	Americana	Korean Martial Arts	153	10-18-2005 09:26 PM
Boycott Tae Kwon Do, I Hate WTF TKD!!!	Great Sage	Korean Martial Arts	78	04-22-2005 11:08 AM
Hapkido or real TKD? Groundfighting only at advanced levels???	ramus	Mixed Martial Arts (MMA) & BJJ Forum	44	04-28-2003 10:10 PM
QUESTIONS FOR ROYCE? LET ME KNOW.	Tiger69	Mixed Martial Arts (MMA) & BJJ Forum	15	10-02-2000 10:05 PM