IPON

MichiganTKD - Unfortunately, that is all too true

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A person who is said to be proficient in the arts is like a fool. Because of his foolishness in concerning himself with just one thing, he thinks of nothing else and thus becomes proficient. - Hagarkure

taekwondoguys

I never see the black belts doing fancy kicks at our school, anyway, and to be honest I have never seen our master in any websites. I suppose he is different, possibly one of the good 5%. Anyway, thats just my opinion. Later all.

taekwondoguys

or magazines for that matter

PaiLumUmar

Well Tell us more about TKD then Please. I have faught quite a few. At my level most were definitely strong and dangerous kicker but as you might guess, jam the kicks or get in close and they loos there game. Yes they have crescent and axe kicks som can get the side kick of from damn close. But otherwise they try to increase the space between you to increse the effectiveness of the kicks. Thats also to say I have not ever been kicked hard enough to rock me hard.

Some that have actually trained other arts or compete full contact are pretty much kick boxers. More well rounded and dangerous.

Thats just my experience. Enlighten me please.

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In PaiLum we move Forward, Even when backing up.

www.whitedragonfistarts.com

Maxetai

TKD gets a bad rap because being the most popular makes it a victim of statistics. More people practice it, so obviously like Damian Mavis mentioned, more people will suck at it compared to other Martial Art styles.
Keep also in mind that more people will be jealous of it because it's the most popular style, and unfortunately many people like to bash (knock) TKD for this reason whether they realize it or not on a conscious level.
Personally, I respect and can appreciate every style as they all have something of value for me. I have yet to check out a Martial Art and not find at least something-no matter how little-useful for me.

m.artist

ya i guess we need to keep in mind that every art has SOMETHING for us in a positive light...

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"Before you open your mouth to speak, please make sure it's an
improvement upon the silence."

IPON

H2H can you explain why TKD is fundamentally flawed. I definatly agree about the McDojo issue, but that says the stale is comprimised by other factors and you are saying ragardless of the quality of teaching the style would never be good

__________________
A person who is said to be proficient in the arts is like a fool. Because of his foolishness in concerning himself with just one thing, he thinks of nothing else and thus becomes proficient. - Hagarkure

kodankan

I think that they place too much emphasis on kicking instead of rounding it out with punches and takedowns ect.
thats just my thoughts though.

Maxetai

I mostly agree with you HandtoHand.
I want to elaborate though through an example. You've got people who carry diamonds and common stones. Some carry only 1 diamond and 9 worthless common stones, while others carry 9 diamonds and only 1 stone. You are given the right to check out anyone you want and get from them any stone or diamond you wish. It's up to you to distinguish between the diamonds and the stones and take what you want. One more detail: what looks like a diamond to you might look like a stone to me and vice versa. In other words: Every individual has to figure out for themselves what's worth it (diamonds) and what's worthless (stones).
That's how MA styles are. They all have diamonds (great realistic techniques and stones (practically worthless techniques), which every individual must process and figure out the "diamonds" from the "stones". The more you search, the more "diamonds" you will pick up and the less "stones" you will eventually carry.
It's an individual choice and responsibility. Do your best, and remember that you can't "afford" to put anything down. Time is limited for all of us, so let's search out the "diamonds" and do away with the "stones".

kodankan

good analogy

Maxetai

By the way HandtoHand, Tae Bo is not Martials Arts!
It's aerobics with simulated punching and kicking movements. It might be of some cardio and coordination benefit, but it has no relation to the Fighting (Martial) Arts.

MichiganTKD

In my opinion, Tae Kwon Do is cursed by several problems:
1. Korean-born instructors come to America for one reason-to make money. As a result, in order to do that, they teach a watered down style that is designed to be fun for kids and appeal to as many people as possible. This is compounded by the fact that most of these guys are not qualified to begin with.
2. In the attempt to gain worldwide publicity and attain Olympic status, Tae Kwon Do has watered itself down and changed its technique to be less effective in order to score points. Don't forget, originally Tae Kwon Do was designed to hurt or kill. The IOC essentially told the WTF "if you want TKD in the Olympics, you have to change the techniques to make them less dangerous". Same thing happened to Judo.
3. Oversaturaton of Tae Kwon Do Instructors, Korean and American. Anytime there is too much of something, you must do something to stand out. As a result, many otherwise half-assed Instructors will do anything for publicity to make a name for themselves.
Tae Kwon Do in itself is a fundementally sound style which, if practiced correctly, has very powerful technique and is very beneficial for many people. Unfortunately, it gets bad publicity from the low class Instructors who are only out to make a name for themselves.

Damian Mavis

PaiLumUmar, I'll educate ya. And Handtohand this is good for you too. Original TKD is very similar to Western kickboxing, when you are close you box to any target above the belt. There are hundreds of thousands of us that study the first style of TKD, compared to the millions that do olympic style, regardless TKD DOES include punches to the head.... it's just that the more popular style of TKD does not include it in their sparring like we do.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

PaiLumUmar

A bunch of very good responses gentelmen. That was a good exchange.

Let me preface that by saying that Something is always better than nothing.
If what you say is true about old TKD that does not change much.
I have to say though that since I still view kickboxing as incomplete and somwhat flawed that it would follow that TKD is also. But then what art is actually fully rounded and complete that is not some sort of hybrid.
Even my art though ist roots are in tact in CMA is still somwhat of an amalgam, filling in elements that wer previously not covered in the art.

It would seem that Hapkido serves that purpose more effectively than even older style TKD.

Never the less It is a kinds of fun though.

__________________
In PaiLum we move Forward, Even when backing up.

www.whitedragonfistarts.com

Spookey

Dear All,

I would like to make a comment relating to "OLD TKD"...Taekwon-Do as taught by the Chung Do Kwan/Oh Do Kwan through the early 1970's (and by die hard ITF/GTF/UTF practitioners even today) has as many hand techniques as does foot techniques, yes it teaches kicks, has release techniques, joint locks and control techniques, throws and takedowns, also teaches defensive techniques against armed opponents (various weapons)!
No, nothing is fool proof or without flaw but TRUE (rather than old) TKD is very well rounded! These techniques are not hidden in the ancient mountain mist of a far away land in a far away time...they are simply buried deep under all the commercialization and sport oriented dojangs of the world!
One must open his eyes and search...it is out there! Yet, many choose to speak based on mis information provided by closed minded speakers who will for theories and hypothesis without duing the research! Cliff notes strike again!

TAEKWON!