PaiLumUmar

There are plenty of Civilian Combatives courses. If All yo want is to be able to fight off an attacker(s) thats the way to go. Stop Bitching about MA's. Jim Wagner & Kelly McCann are well known in the industry look them up.

Military hand to Hand is crap unles you go into spec ops(ranger, seals etc.) They have whole curriculums and will soon be giving out rank and certifications.

We do martial arts for all sort of reasons not the least of which is being able to take on some punk that decides he wants to put a hole in you before he takes your wallet.

__________________
In PaiLum we move Forward, Even when backing up.

www.whitedragonfistarts.com

MichiganTKD

I have been asked to recommend a TKD school in my area in the past, and unfortunately couldn't do it. I had to decide between a. the whore (ironically Chung Do Kwan like me) b. the Olympic sport style and c. the no talent. I finally threw up my arms and said screw it. The North American head of Aikido was located nearby so I had to recommend that. Pretty embarassing. Anyway, I do consider myself lucky to have practiced in a school where the Instructor has remained true to Tae Kwon Do's roots (strong basics, good form, integrity, developing power, moral character etc.) Furthermore, he remains close to his Instructor in Korea and has has not broken away or been cut and developed his own pseudo-style.
I realize full well the majority of Tae Kwon Do schools in the country, if not the world, are low class sandlot style, your local McDojang, as some of you put it. All I can do it teach the best way I know how. It has not been easy sometimes, as the temptation to whore myself out for money is there. I could always say "These guys have a lot more students, maybe I should be like them." That feeling lasts about 2 seconds, as I could never forgive myself for doing that to my students. In fact, I get a lot of positive feedback from them saying how glad they are to practice where they do. They know those schools as well, either firsthand or from secondhand accounts.
Regarding the person who was taught by his father or uncle: I personally would not recommend this since the bond between father/son is very special, and it would be too hard to be objective. Our founder's son is a 4th Dan in our Organization, but he was taught by a different Instructor in the Organization, not his dad.

Spookey

Sir,

I do not understand your concept of not being trained by your father or uncle(?) For us it allows good quality time, a good since of family TKD history, and affords the most dedicated instruction available!
His ability has been documented by military, with state and local law enforcement, and his accomplishments...furthermore, as you stated there is that special bond, and as a parent I wish for my children to exceed my abilities (in every way!) and I know he wants the same for me as his son!
Also, it may not work for all but it appears to be working for me...also we will arrainge for further instruction from "outside" the family once that level is reached!

TAEKWON!

MichiganTKD

Spookey,
This is an excerpt that appeared on the website TKDtutor.com, talking about the subject of children learning Tae Kwon Do from their father:


An old Korean proverb states, "father and mother are the parents who bring me up, while a teacher is the parent who educates me". For this reason, students are expected to pay as much respect to their teachers as they would to their parents.

Another old Korean proverb, "Parents may procreate children, but not their purpose in life". Thus, a parents may love their child, they may never become the child's teacher. The parent/child relationship is emotional and all objectivity is lost. Without this objectivity, it is nearly impossible to institute and continue absolute control with the learning system. The greatest challenge and reward for a parent is being able to provide the guidance that will make the child a useful and respected member of the society. Parent responsibility to provide the proper education that will broaden the child’s knowledge and imbue him or her with a good sense of ethics and morality. Because the parents hesitates to force discipline on their children in an objective manner, it makes it difficult for them to provide the correct education the child needs. There is a subconscious fear that it will create a breach in their relationship. Confucius advised, "Children should be exchanged and taught by concerned parents."

To teach another’s child to become a person of good character, according to the wishes of his or her own parents, is a great responsibility. In the eyes of the student, his teacher will occupy an equal position with his own parents. There is truth in the adage that the King, Teacher, and Father are one and equal. There must certainly be a degree of love and understanding in all the above relationships, but there must also be a degree of objectivity. This same relationship must also be present in teaching Taekwondo.

Certainly a dedicated and sincere instructor is an absolute necessity for any school for with one the school cannot grow and mature. Accordingly both instructor and student owe a debt of responsibility to each other that may never be paid.

When I was first attending college, many moons ago, I had to choose between two instructors for the same course: my dad and someone else. I chose the other instructor for the same reason our Founder had one of his black belts teach his child: all objectivity is lost when the student is your offspring. If the child does poorly, you might think differently of him because he was not successful in an activity you love. If the child excels, there is a good possibility that other students will be jealous because he will have access to opportunities and knowledge they do not. Our founder's son, except for his name, is not the "Special One" in the organization. They will always be family, however. The founder guided him through school and work as a father will guide a son.

Spookey

Michigan TKD,

Thank you for your reply...I will keep those sayings in perspective!

TAEKWON!
SPookey

tkdman

Have you been to Korea???? its a 2 year BB...... the national team and rock army our the ones who train here.... just like the national team here.....you as the martial artist determine how hard you train... when was the last time you went out side and ran 5 mile in your do-bak in the snow stoping only to preform a poomse? never....hmmmm would that make you weak.... people enroll in martial arts for a many of reasons. some to train "old school" style... and some want a workout and to feel good about them selves.... myself and business partners have operated one of the largest TKD franchises in the united states..... for more than 20 years..... we cater to all of our students wants and needs... for you to general that american martial arts are weak is coming from a very closed and I would guess inexpreinced person... Tae Bo...LOL I don't know where you study you might need a different Master if that is all you are learning

MichiganTKD

As far as physical technique, Americans actually have more power than Koreans because of our larger size. Also, Korean Tae Kwon Do has lost much power due to the fact that since they have focused so much on tournament competition, be necessity the technique has adjusted (kicking angles, targets, method of execution).
Now having said that, on many levels American Tae Kwon Do is just as bad as Korean Tae Kwon Do for the simple reason that many Instructors have forsaken traditional teaching for the Almighty Dollar. Real Tae Kwon Do is not glamorous, does not make good ad copy, and is not fancy. Both American and Korean Instructors, in an attempt to cash in have whored themselves out to make a buck. In a TKD school near where I teach, the Instructor seems to care more about selling fancy uniforms, the book he wrote, weapons, and gear students don't really need. All in the name of lining his pockets. However, his students' basics, form, and overall technique are crap. I know because I've seen it.

Spookey

[quote=MichiganTKD]As far as physical technique, Americans actually have more power than Koreans because of our larger size.




Dear Sir,

I hate to inform you that on average Koreans are no smaller than Americans (with the exeption of the wickedly high obesity rate)!

Ever see Nam Tae Hi, he's not huge but well on the side of average...and Kong Young Il, well he is pretty big!

Furthermore, this is probably one of the most stereotipical comments I have ever heard!

Rok soldiers are shaped much like American soldiers and the civilian population alike...tall, short, heavy, skinny, heavily muscled, lean and toned...

Again I feel this comment is very incorrect! And I live in a population with many Koreans, Laotions, Thais, and Indians! Many of whom are new to our fast food, and steroid injected meat!

TAEKWON!
Spookey

MichiganTKD

Good point.

Our Instructor spoke to us years ago about why Tae Kwon Do was so popular in this country. He said he felt that Tae Kwon Do was more natural for the American body, implying that Koreans are more nearly our size. In fact, one of our black belts who was stationed and practiced in Korea felt that the Koreans were closer in stature to the Northern Chinese and Mongolians, which might account for their larger size.
I do feel that the focus in Korea on tournament sparring has led to a decline in technique power among Korean Instructors. Instructors outside Korea are still producing good students capable of strong technique.

Spookey

[quote=MichiganTKD]Good point.

Our Instructor spoke to us years ago about why Tae Kwon Do was so popular in this country. He said he felt that Tae Kwon Do was more natural for the American body, implying that Koreans are more nearly our size.

Mr. Michigan TKD,

You are confusing me! Just three posts down you stated and I quote, "Americans actually have more power than Koreans because of our larger size"

Is this not contradictory to your very next post!

Furthermore, anyone who ever saw an Oyama demonstration is probably ROFL after that comment!

Please clarify!
TAEKWON!
Spookey

MichiganTKD

What I mean is, in terms of Tae Kwon Do used by the WTF in international competition, and based on what I've seen, the Koreans seem to have more speed. They can contact you more times in a certain amount of time than the Americans tend to be able to, because they train to be fast to score points.
However, when it comes to being able to penetrate and make power, the Americans tend to have the edge . This is the feedback I have received from black belts I know who have practiced with Koreans and fought with them. Maybe the older generation of Tae Kwon Do instructors were more powerful because their priorities were different. Certainly noone is denying that Tae Hi Nam or Hee Il Cho have power. And our Instructor had more power in his frame than any black belt I knew. He is also a little taller and bigger than most Koreans.

tkdman

Look power is merely a property of physics.......... any one can have power...

mass x acceleration = force its as simple as that..... the weight different in a 200 pound persons leg and a 130 pound persons leg in not that much different... technique technique is the key to power.... flexiblity and strength lead to explosive speed which creates the largest varible in the math problem...LOL....... a poor executed technique will not be delivered with the same speed and will not have the power.... not to mention targeting is just as important... if I kick for head and decided to touch you right ear thats all I touch doesn't have much power...... however if I adjust my focus point to the other side of your head... which puts your head between my foot and my focus point the result is a visit with the sandman...lol the 2 kicks are identical just the focus point has changed....

kind regards.....

Damian Mavis

"the weight different in a 200 pound persons leg and a 130 pound persons leg in not that much different"

Most of what you said is ok but this is straight up wrong. Dude.... I hit WAYYYYYY harder than guys 50 pounds heavier than me (not all those guys but alot of them) simply because I am using proper technique and they are muscling the technique (basically doing half the technique by relying on muscles instead of mechanics). Proper technique entails using your body for power, your ENTIRE body, not just your leg. So we aren't talking about an extra 15 pounds in the 200 pound guys single leg compared to the 130 pound guys leg. We are talking about an extra 70 pounds in total behind that kick! You should know that, maybe you do and you just forgot.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

rkcann01

so...if the 200 pound person is using proper technique, then he will obviously over power the ligher weight student. My wieght is 205 lbs and I know from tournament experience (this last Saturday) that if I do a spinning back kick into a 130 lb'er, that he will not be up before the eight count. Not to mention that the 200 lb'ers usually are taller then the light wieghts, giving us more leg reach, which is without a doubt, a huge advantage.

Damian Mavis

Obviously! I can out power alot of big guys because my technique is superior, sound arrogant? It's just the truth. But then every once in a while I train with a big guy and he rattles my brains with every kick into the shield I'm holding and I can see the sharpness of his technique and his ability to put his body into the kick. I would never want to catch one in a full contact match, it would break me.

What kind of tournament matches up 205 pound fighters with 130 pound ones? haha

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD