DKMerriwether

Guy,let me first say that if you spent 11 years in the Korean Arts with no result,either they were not for you,or you had a bad instructor.Whatever the reason,a lot of time and money was wasted. The instructor should have had the guts to tell you that his methods were not working for you.I still havent understood how my last post to you can be considered wrong. I said that those arts were not for you,not the martial arts period!!I wear a size 11 shoe, now, Im not going to wear a 10 and torture myself in that shoe all day long.So to those who feel that I was incorrect by suggesting that you find another style to suit you,they need to read my post with a better understanding of what was actually said,and stop being so quick to try and start a verbal war with people. I encourage you to continue to seek qualified instruction in a style that you find fits you personality and body type.EVERY STYLE IS NOT FOR EVERYONE!! Contrary to what was said about this in a previous post,you have to find a style to fit YOU.Do some research as well as homework about the hundreds of arts out there,and im sure you will find one that fits your demands.Remember,styles were created by indivivuals because the style they were praticing wasnt for them.Lee,Oyama,Ueshiba,Gen. Choi are just a few of hundreds of examples of those who found another way for themselves. This is why I suggest you do more research before you give up. It would be sad because of a bad experience.Reread the previous post by Mr.Mavis and Mithios theres alot of wisdom in those words.I have to run,feel fre to e-mail me if you want to talk more....

IPON

Bri I have to basically agree with this point I do feel alot of MA schools are a let down in guiding ppl to become fighters (at least those that want to be fighters). But I do think people let themselves down as well.

Using an academic analogy I would say earning a degree is important yes it serves as a foundation for your chosen career. Those truely profiecient have learned well outside the class room (reading, internships, etc). Those that have learned in class only may have a good understanding but not as indepth as the more agressive student. This example is true with sports and MAs. Most MA practioners go to dojang 2-3 days/wk, 1 hrper day. When not at dojang there is no training no willingness to develop. thant is the part where the MA cannot be blamed and it is the responsibility of the practicioner.

Also, I notice that ppl complain about MA because they have unrealistic ideas of MA and think that as soon as they train they will be unstoppable or bullies will stop picking on them. MA at its best can only take you as far as your understanding, skill and dedication permits.

I studied tang soo do and hapkido and for me both were good at least where I study and for the most part all techniques have application (though some of teh arrangements I may question). Guy all the techniques you listed definately have application and I assume you are about 3rd dan after 11 years of training, you should know the difference between something that doesnot work and something you are not good with (at least from a fighting perspective).

I am not taking sides becuase I do think Mcdojo syndrome is the down fall of MAs in the US and they are typically TKD schools unfortunately. But I do know that my uncle studied TKD and what he studied was closer to what Mithios is describing. But I do think it is the exception rather than the norm.

I am rambling. ANyway, just my 2 cents

__________________
A person who is said to be proficient in the arts is like a fool. Because of his foolishness in concerning himself with just one thing, he thinks of nothing else and thus becomes proficient. - Hagarkure

guy incognito

[quote=Damian Mavis]Thai Bri doesn't do or love TKD.
Your synopsis of those strikes you listed is wrong, everything works if set up. And EACH of those strikes should have enough power to break bone. None of them are weak, unless of course, YOU suck.

I know that T.B. does'nt do TKD.
My synopsis is absolutely correct These strikes are trained entirely different to how you would use them in combat.If you tried to use them how you train
them you would get wiped out.
How many people bones have you really broken with these techniques.None I would say.Total fiction.And they are weak how you would use them in sparring or a confrontation for that matter.And I can assure you that the only reason I sucked is because I did TKD!
Yes I should have been about a second or third dan but I was poor and could not afford all gradings plus I wanted to learn things thoroughly not just be able to brag about rank(After all bragging would be no good if I could not back it up)

__________________
You can only win when im not affraid to lose.

IPON

What the hell is all that about anyway there are like 200 different threads and none of them make any sense

__________________
A person who is said to be proficient in the arts is like a fool. Because of his foolishness in concerning himself with just one thing, he thinks of nothing else and thus becomes proficient. - Hagarkure

guy incognito

Someone used the analogy of a motor car before.TKD is like trying to use a cart to do a cars job.It has the fundamentals of a car,4 wheels body etc but its useless to get to work.TKD is a cart.Its has the fundamentals of a MA but its not a MA.

__________________
You can only win when im not affraid to lose.

Cue Ball

I'm also a Security Officer/Crwd Controller, and whatever you use in a situation has to be fast. If you can grapple someone into a state of unconciousness in a matter of split seconds, or stun them enough to back off rapidly, then yes, grappling would work.

In a situation, especially against multiple bad guys, you don't have time to spend on choke holds or anyhting like that (my knowledge of grappling is little non-existant), you just go at it until they, or you, are no longer standing. We are taught "approved holds" (there's only 4 in Queensland, Australia), and it's technically breaking the law to use anything else, even though they're next to useless.

If you want to practice for the mission, and your missioin is bouncing/crowd controlling, my advice is to practice something that strikes very quickly.

Of course, your best bet is to try and talk your way out of the situation first, as there's a mountain of paperwork and a lot of hassle (here at least) from the authorities if you punch on straight out.

Hope this has been helpful.

__________________
In the end, we're all dead anyway.

MADDOG

Hello,

Today’s TKD, Today’s Karate and really about any Today’s martial art that is sport base has little to no martial value.

It is just not TKD – but TKD has set the pattern that most other arts have followed.

How does the MA that you are defending or condemning stand up to:
[1] An assault that is based on no rules just survival.
[2] Subduing and attacker and causing no them any harm.
[3] Multiple attackers.
[4] Gun or knife attack.
I am an old TKD MDK stylist. Many have accused me that I am not teaching today’s TKD. My rebuttal back is I am teaching the martial aspect of what TKD was supposed to be about, not this you too can be an Olympic star if you join our Black Belt club – Little Dragons – Little Ninja – my 9 year old is a second degree Black Belt and a world champion – or any of this Mc Dojo crap that has defaced my TKD community.

Yes, the TKD community has brought this on to them selves and those that have chosen the McDojo route deserve to be accused of teaching a ‘SUCKING ART’.

Thank you.

Ed Barton
An old American TKD MDK Bulldog.

sherwinc

Tae Kwon Do is really sucks compare to a Capoeira,

Tae Kwon Do is only effective if both of your feet has a doubled edged dagger attached to it

and ThaiBri is really CONVINCED........

guy incognito

Dear Maddog you are really passionate and really pissed off about the state TKD has put itself in.Its a shame I was'nt taught by someone like you who would like to see the martial aspect returned to the art of TKD.While my experience has forever sullied the art for me and i will never return I hope you and other continue to try and restore some respect and dignity to the art.
I can see why some people are saying that I must have sucked not the art but a child cannot walk before it can crawl no matter how much it tries.

__________________
You can only win when im not affraid to lose.

Damian Mavis

Guy, I did say maybe you just had a bad instructor. I allowed that maybe it wasn't you that sucked but your instructor.

I have broken bones with those strikes, ribs on 2 people using sidekick and nose with backfist. Not bragging it just happened and I know the strikes are valid, if you can't do them the same well then you are the problem not the strike. And stop assuming that all things are the same in all TKD, I teach the old traditional style and have no clue what half of you are talking about when you refer to TKD. (well I know from reading but have never experienced it first hand).

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

Spookey

Mr. Mavis,

Being a Chang Hon practicioner with a true Oh Do Kwan instructor, I agree with your last comment. What is so often refered to is what I believe the General was refering to as the BASTARDIZATION of TKD!
Also, I would be interested in learning more about your TKD history, ie. instructors, ect.
If you do not wish to reply here, feel free to email me!

TAEKWON!
Spookey

MADDOG

Hello,

To guy incognito = Thank you for your comments. As you can see, there are others like; Damian Mavis & Spookey, who teach real TKD.
A while back in TKD times on of the reports wrote an article in regards to this very subject. His assessment of the present state of TKD was not unlike your opinion. His resolution to this was a return back to the independent Kwons. But in all fairness, this reporter was from the independent Kwons, so he may be a little prejudice but his assessment was right on.

To Damian Mavis & Spookey = keep up the good fight. I know present day TKD is in an upheaval; with the WTF scandals, both domestic and internationally – the infighting at the ITF, post the General’s death and the McDojo issue.
May be the, fore mention TKD report was right. It will be as individuals in our own Dojangs that will restore respect back to TKD.

Thank you.

Ed Barton
An old American TKD MDK Bulldog.

guy incognito

A friend of mine has accidentaly broken his training partners arm too.I meant in actual combat not in the dojang.But come on seven intructors and three federations in 11 years they cant have all sucked.The only variable that did'nt change in that time was me so maybe I did suck.Then again of 7 instructors and 3 federations still no usefull stuff maybe its the art.

__________________
You can only win when im not affraid to lose.

IPON

It sounds like this is the problem some of it maybe you, but if you could of been promoted to up to 3rd dan with without solid technical skill....that's a McDojo and I can understand your frustrations.

__________________
A person who is said to be proficient in the arts is like a fool. Because of his foolishness in concerning himself with just one thing, he thinks of nothing else and thus becomes proficient. - Hagarkure

Damian Mavis

Actually Guy, one of the unfortunate trends in TKD is, like a contagious disease, all the schools in a certain area are all equally as bad because years ago they all came from the same roots or just copied eachothers busniess practices that make the student suffer. This isn't always the case but I've seen it and it's pretty sad to see a whole city with nothing but crap TKD.

Spookey, no I don't mind talking about my background.

I started TKD in 1990 with Mr. Fu in Aylmer Quebec. He actually came from a Kung Fu background in Honk Kong (he was Chinese) and then moved to Canada and started training in WTF TKD with Grandmaster Lee (who controls WTF in the city of Ottawa). They had a falling out years later and Mr. Fu joined the ITF. When I joined we were ITF. But my training incorporated ITF,WTF and kungfu influences. We only sparred ITF style, however... if you know anything about Quebec Canada you will know they are some hardcore mofa'kas and it was pretty rough. We did not wear sparring equipment of any kind and every night I had a new busted lip, broken nose or black eye. At the time I hated it and almost quit but now I thank god for that kind of training and am so glad I didn't give up on martial arts. It changed my life.

After I received my black belt Mr. Fu switched us over to GTF which was just a smaller version of ITF.

Unfortunately I had a falling out with Mr. Fu (go figure) and was forced to leave and took my school and went back to ITF... just like all the other instructors that Mr. Fu alienated over the years... we were all back in ITF except him! I was the last to leave.

Now after 14 years I am 4th degree and happy in the ITF under Master Choi and opening the first ITF school in Thailand while still running my school in Ottawa Canada.

There is a ton of other stuff involving all the other martial arts I trained in but unless you ask about that I'll just stick to TKD!

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD