eXcessiveForce

Competition is not fighting. it is sport. It has rules.

Kata is a training tool but try to use Kata training against a school that trains sparring 3 hours a week year in year out and you will not win.

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eXcessiveFORCE.

If you must use force, make it excessive.

sirmattu

and what do you call what happened when the kodokan first fought against the jui jitsu schools of that time?

MADDOG

Hello,

The art is only as complete as what and whom that is teaching it.

TKD, Shotokan, Goju, Aikido and you name the MA, can all be very effective arts if they are taught in their entirety. They also are effective if the teachings are being absorbed and practice properly.
What is your MA focus?

My TKD is old school. I have been doing TKD for the past 22 years and I could not ask for a more complete art.

In this expression of TKD, we utilize all percussion techniques from all the many ranges. We also utilize locks, chokes, throws, weapon defense and multiple attackers. This is not unlike many arts. It just happens to be what works for me.
Once again what is your MA focus?

My TKD focus is martial. I teach an art that is effective for the street. We would fail in a sport application. If you MA is sport focused I would hope that you would be proficient in the sports arena. I would also not except your sport MA to be as effective in the street.


Your MA is an expression of what you place as its priority. What is your MA focus

Ed Barton
An Old American TKD MDK

ipscshooter

I don't know where some of you guys come up with this stuff. I've been training in TKD, and competing in tournaments, etc. for 6 years. Never once have I seen a TKDist get into the ring thinking "I'm going to use Won Hyo to defeat this opponent." Nobody gets in the ring and uses a kata. Kata is an exercise and a catalog of techniques. You train in them to improve technique, balance, etc. You do not train in kata with the thought that you will use a kata in an actual fight, whether real or in a tournament. Fights are too fluid for that. i.e. Opponents move. They don't do things in an established order. We train in kata simply to perfect techniques, to exercise our weapons (hands, feet, knees, elbows.... TKD IS NOT JUST KICKS TO THE HEAD ), to increase balance, speed and power. We train in sparring to try to approximate in real time some of the things you might face in an actual fight. It would be a serious mistake for someone to think "My school trains in sparring all the time and we never waste any time doing kata. His school wastes part of its time training in kata and therefore I'll have no problem kicking his ass."

Tom Yum

My impression from working out with high-ranked TKD guys is that they can kick about as fast as boxers can punch. Since they are striking with larger muscles, they hit you with a lot of impact. TKD guys drill accuracy, speed and technique which takes care of power. And they kick at all levels too.

IMHO, they are not used to leg kicks or boxing, so they will probably try to step away from low kicks and counter. Unless they cross train in boxing, the hand techniques are mediocre - straight punches & ridgehands, sometimes thrown with a little bit of tightness.

You mentioned that TKD guys train elbows and knees too, but its mostly in self-defense sets and the knee is thrown with considerably less power than the muay thai knee. Reason being, they kick the knee up as if chambering for a hard front snap kick. This is a good knee technique, but if you explode the knee up and out using your hip action instead of purely up you will send the pad holder flying back...in sparring against good knee strikers, you will get floored allmost constantly , unless you've spent round after round holding the pads and getting used to the impact.

I think TKD has some really usefull kicks. TKD fighters are medium to long distance fighters. They will use straight punches from time to time, but will try to set you up with kicks.

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Thai Bri

Tom. No kicker can kick as fast asa boxer can punch. Our minds make allowances for the fact that one is using his hands, whilst the other is using his legs. The extra "wow" factor of the kick makes it seem more impressive.

I don't even think that the foot can move as fast as the hand but, even if it did, the fact that the kick has 2,3,4 or even 5 times more distance to travel means that it will land on target much longer after the kick began, than the punch will after the punch began.

Don't forget, in some kickboxing circles they even have a minimum kick count, as fighters would otherwise not even bother using them.

jubaji

...................................

LOL

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Tom Yum

True about the minimum kick count.

There's a TKD fighter from Turkey who fought a decision loss to Masato. Sure he didn't win, but he held his own. As expected he ate a lot of low leg kicks, which slowed him down as the fight continued. He even rocked Masato a couple of times.

There was also a karate/tkd guy who fought in Thailand (Manson Gibson). He had about as many wins as losses, but he fought the cream of the crop so it seemed. He battled a decision loss to Hoost in a K-1 GP. He dabbled in muay thai so he would be familiar with it, but his fighting style was consumed with side kicks, spin kicks and axe kicks and would win by KO.

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sirmattu

wow and i thought some of the people on this site knew what they were talking about.......... guess not.

Thai Bri

What gave you that idea?

sirmattu

ahh dude.... you must be reading something other than what i am reading if you dont see it. no offense to anyone but some people in here weren't ment to communicate with others .

Tom Yum

You'll have to excuse my less than perfect English. It gets mixed up with all the other languages...

PS - 'ment' should be spelled 'meant', I think...

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jubaji

Well, I hope that makes you feel more at home!

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eXcessiveForce

Well, I've trained in multiple forms of TKD for over 20 years and have been teaching in my own school for 10 years. I taught for someone else before that. I have trained 1000's of students in that time.

Sorry but give me someone who doesn't spar much and only does Kata over somebody that spars all the time anyday.

When I was younger I traveled to other schools 2 days each week to spar in open sparring classes where many styles and even people who didn't have any particular style came in to fight. I averaged 22 tournaments a year and have competed in both open and closed tournaments.

Forms are a good training tool, but for fighting sparring is equally important.

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eXcessiveFORCE.

If you must use force, make it excessive.

ipscshooter

Did you mix that up? I think you meant it the other way around.

I think we're close to agreement. For some reason, I had interpretted your earlier statement to mean that if someone wastes ANY time doing kata, then it's a foregone conclusion that he will lose to someone who trains only in sparring. I agree that kata is a training tool, that class time should also be devoted to sparring, and that, if one only does kata, one will not become an accomplished fighter.