brokenelbow

What, who and how?

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The crap that many schools do is not the crap I was taught or train in or teach.

Damnit... it made sense when it was running through my head.

DM

EyeOfTheTiger

whats killing it is that its to much of a sport rather than a martial art.
Most tkd dojangs concitrate on point hits..while very few are more on the defensive arts.
Most people think tkd is usless in real fights...i agree..and yet disagree at sum points.

Spookey

Dear All,

My personal beliefs regarding the state of TKD (as inended to be...a fighting art) as well as the other various hard style TMA's is as follows:

I believe there to be two main factors to the deterioration of TKD as a fighting art...

1. Society has created a need for a soft, politically correct version of everything. The current mindset of instant gratification without the urge to donate blood, sweat, and tears. This has allowed (and even demanded) the proliferation of water soluable version of martial arts...

2. A lack of instructors seeking anything other than marketable, commercial based, revenue. Martial arts can not be bought. Proper training and devotion is required to forge strength (in anything; MA related or not)!

Society has no since of responsibility for ones self, and even less responsibility for ones fellow man! Therefore, it is my belief that this is an ethical, socialogical problem; not a martial arts problem!

Even in biblical times it was said..."He who doth not work, therefore neither shalt he eat"


TAEKWON!
Spookey

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Taekwon-Do Oh Do Kwan - Chang Han Family

Thai Bri

Commercialism.

bvermillion

There is an article that appeared in the July 2004 issue of Black Belt that hit the nail on the head. In the article Hee-Il Cho discusses the evoluteion of Taekwondo's kicking methods and how they have changed. He never came out and said they were better back then he just keeps referring to the fact that todays techniques are sport oriented and high spinning kicks weren't originally in tkd. I found it to be a very interested article. Heres the link http://blackbeltmag.com/document_dis...y=1&startsum=1

ipscshooter

and the "Sport" orientation...

doubleouch

There is nothing killing TKD. It is the most practiced martial art in the US. It is what it is. The fact that it is sport oriented and quite a bit more non lethal than it once was is also the secret to it's success. If your question is why most of it sucks now then it is because it has been modified to make it commercially successful.

brokenelbow

I don't think commercialism and the sport orientation of alot of TKD is killing it. GJJ is about as sport oriented and commercial as you can get and it still maintains a great deal of effectiveness. There is nothing wrong with making a dollar and nothing at all wrong with having a sport side to a combat art. I've been on the wrong end of a WTF fighters kicks more than I care to remeber so I'm not going to blame them. Boxing is a sport, wrestling is a sport, but they still maintain a certain standard. There has to be something else that's ripping the guts from TKD. I'm thinking along what Spookey said, "soft, politically correct version". But the Koreans aren't very PC so there has to be something more. Maybe an identity crisis?

__________________
The crap that many schools do is not the crap I was taught or train in or teach.

Damnit... it made sense when it was running through my head.

DM

Ikken Hisatsu

ruleset. plain and simple. other sports like wrestling, boxing, kickboxing, kyokushin, they are all still seen as (and are) effective because the rulesets are far less limiting.

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If there is no grand plan; if there is no big picture; if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do.

Andrew WA

Greed is killing it. People want to make money. A lot of Koreans who come to USA want to make a lot of money. They worked hard to get their art so popular and now they want to make tons of money off of any kid who's parents drop him off to their classes.

This attitude is not just killing TKD either. Its killing Karate as well and even kung fu in many places.

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Zin-ji! Why are you so stupid?...If you hadn't let him escape...You will be executed now. Six months hard labor!

MADDOG

What is killing TKD is TKD.

There is nothing wrong with TKD that cannot be corrected by TKD.

Bottom line, TKD is no different than any other art.

There are some outstanding TKD stylists that maintain the integrity of TKD. To them I am thankful and in their debt.

There are also some degrading TKD stylists that have corrupted the integrity of TKD. To them, I wish you would leave and go find another con to make your money. I would not dirty my schools floor with you.

The future of TKD is not in organizations like the WTF, ITF, and ATA. This is not a negative comment to these organizations; it is just the fact that the MA’s are a fringe part of society. The American public is not aware of the creditability of lack of creditability of some organizations.

The future of TKD is in the hands of the instructors, regardless of what political allegiance one has. The individual instructor represents and has always represent the MA as a whole to the public.
From ideology to practicality – How to correct TKD:
[1] Destroy the McDojo’s.
[2] Destroy the daycare post school programs.
[3] ITF, regroup and remember what the General’s vision was. He believed in the power
of TKD. {Please note I am not with the ITF.}
[4] WTF, regroup and remember that your upper administrations actions have ramifications on your associated members.
[5] ATA, is there even a reason to regroup. Have you always been a McDojo?
[6] Independents stay independent and preserve what was taught to you and pass it on
to the next generation.
[7] If your main focus is Olympic TKD, please do not call yourself a MA. You are outstanding sport competitors and should be commended for that.
[8] Let’s stay focus that TKD was and for some, is still a complete MA. Let’s teach it that may.

If you are a student of TKD enjoy and work hard to improve it. We are obligated to do so. Remember, someone cared enough to teach you TKD, should we not return the same passion for what TKD is all about.

Ed Barton
An Old American TKD MDK

brokenelbow

Excellent Ed. And I like that you refer to instructors and not masters or grand masters. The integrity of any art is the responsibility of whoever is instructing, even if that person isn't a master or even a black belt. So that even the red, brown or even blue belt who is teaching a group of children is responsible for teaching what they've been taught. Which also means whoever taught them had better done his job. A friend of mine says he always judges a school not by it's black belts but by it's brown, blue and even yellow belts. If there is integrity at those levels then you know that the instructors know what they're doing.

__________________
The crap that many schools do is not the crap I was taught or train in or teach.

Damnit... it made sense when it was running through my head.

DM

Spookey

Dear All,

In responce to the post my Mr. Barton...

I am no longer related to the ITF (post the General's death), but have followed the martial teachings of CHoi Hong Hi for as long as I can remember. My primary instructor (and Father) was an instructor of the General's Oh Do Kwan and then later for the ITF.

Choi Hong Hi, founder of Chang Hon Taekwon-Do, during his final seminar (Denver, Co 2002), while addressing the majority of his senior students as well as there students, he stated something to this effect. "You no longer need me, I have given you all I have, you are all General Choi, you are TAEKWON-DO!"

This mans integrity led him to rise from his wheelchair (with white feeding tube in nose) address the loyal students that joined him for a final reunion, and Gen. Choi went on to teach the remainder of the seminar! I will post a link to some photos once I relocate it!

We should dedicate ourselves to the art we profess or should not profess the art.

Be true to the ideals that created this wonderful art...and FIGHT TO PRESERVE IT!

TAEKWON!
Michael Bateman
Bateman Taekwon-Do Oh Do Kwan

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Taekwon-Do Oh Do Kwan - Chang Han Family

MADDOG

Hello Spookey,

You stated:

Be true to the ideals that created this wonderful art...and FIGHT TO PRESERVE IT!

-It’s good to have someone else who is passionate for TKD. Keep up the good fight!!!!

Ed Barton
An Old American TKD MDK

Tameo

Tkd is now no more than a sport as practiced in most of the world. One trick tkd people use on the ring is they turn their back to the opponent because hits to the back do not count. This would get you killed in a real fight.

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