Round kick for self-defense problem

aku aku · 11-21-2004, 01:12 PM

Hello,

I enjoy practicing the round kick and would like it to be a good self-defense tool, the problem is when I hit stuff.

When I practice barefoot I generally hit the bag with the top of my foot and that is fine. When I have shoes on and I try to hit with the top of the foot it bothers my ankle. When I hit with the ball of my foot I hurt my toes, I pull them back but I don't know if I have the flexibility for it. My shoes also don't have the support needed to kick with the toes like the savate people do.

I also practice the thai kick but I enjoy practicing the round kick and I don't want to get in the habit of throwing it if I can't land it effectively

Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions?

Thanks.

11-21-2004, 02:11 PM

Yeah I have a suggestion. Don't throw it. Round kicks are for three things: (1) sissy's; (2) Jean-Claude Van Dame movie slow motion reels; and (3) to make you look like a bad ass on the bag. That's about it. Why don't you try working on your hand-to-hand techniques instead, they are much more effective than most kicks anyways....

Tom Yum · 11-21-2004, 03:54 PM

Trollerific.

aku aku · 11-21-2004, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kung-fwho?

Why don't you try working on your hand-to-hand techniques instead, they are much more effective than most kicks anyways....

You're right, and I do. I also enjoy kicking though, it's fun and it's great exercise but it would be nice to think I could use it.

11-21-2004, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aku aku

You're right, and I do. I also enjoy kicking though, it's fun and it's great exercise but it would be nice to think I could use it.

well in that case, to quote the obvious "practice makes perfect"...keep practicing, curl the toes up....no such thing as i'm not flexible....only i'm not flexible YET.....work on that first then later maybe you can see where a low round kick is effective.

Ironpalm · 11-21-2004, 04:48 PM

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Jeremy Lobdell · 11-21-2004, 06:39 PM

Being able to utelize a roundhouse kick effectively in a self defense situation should be a definite goal of any martial artist. Having said that, what you're striking with, how you set it up, and what targets your going for varries greatly depending on what art -style you practice. I focus primarily on the thai style kick to the outer thigh, making contact with my shin. This just seems to work best for me. I use it to close space to strike with my hands and-or look for the clinch for knee strikes and take down. It also works well to stop someone elses charge in, unless of cource you miss.

In addition, while kicking a bag or other stationary target is good to develope technique and power, being able to use it against a live, moving, and hostile person is a significantly harder thing to due, but should be your ultimate goal.
Mahalo, Jeremy

Tom Yum · 11-21-2004, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironpalm

Try hitting with the bottom of the foot not the top. !00 years ago people didnt kick with the top of the foot. Its one of the new "improvements" that might not be an improvement at all. Yes, it will change the angles and applications but as you noted the other way didnt work anyway. It was a sport improvement to a fighting art.

Are you talking about the ball of the foot?

Same contact point used in front, and side kicks. That's good for long kicks and stomps.

Jeremy Lobdell · 11-21-2004, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Yum

Are you talking about the ball of the foot?

Same contact point used in front, and side kicks. That's good for long kicks and stomps.

I've used the ball of the foot to check the legs of someone trying to throw a kick, and in a more stomp like motion, but never a part of a roundhouse. It would seem that you would need to clear the hips out a lot farther than in a normal roundhouse. I guess I'll have to give it a honest try and see if I can use it.

Ironpalm · 11-21-2004, 08:04 PM

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Jeremy Lobdell · 11-21-2004, 08:13 PM

Ah, I see. I've never trained in TKD, so I can't voice an educated opinion about it or how it has changed over the years. While I train in live partner, realistic fighting, I try to use maximum power and make each strike count( obviously hitting focus mitts and kicking shields as opposed to the other person) as that is my general advantage, while being cautious not to overextend or take myself off balance. I always like the combo of faking the roundhouse and delivering the low front kick with the toe or ball of the foot to SP 6 on the opposite leg, especially if the groin is not an option.

Ironpalm · 11-21-2004, 08:21 PM

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Jeremy Lobdell · 11-21-2004, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironpalm

Yes the ball and the heel both. The toe kicks are really nice when wearing combat boots. What I am referring to is the difference between kicking that was done through the 1960's as compared to the kicking techniques of the 21st century.
"The kicks used these days come in numerous variations and are marked by flashy combinations and acrobatic spins. The practitioners of yesteryear were limited to 4 kicks--the roundhouse kick, front kick, side kick, and back turning kick--all of which were executed in a relatively linear fashion."
"A prime example of the trend toward reduced emphasis on power is the roundhouse kick. Today, TKD students strike almost exclusiively with their instep. While their mid-20th century counterparts use the ball of the foot. To understand why they were so adamant about making contact with the harder, less sensitive portion of their sole, try roundhousing a hard object with your instep. Pain, as they say, is the best teacher" -- Hee-ll Cho

The emphasis must be on training for the point style sparring that seems most common for their competitions.

Tom Yum · 11-21-2004, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy Lobdell

I've used the ball of the foot to check the legs of someone trying to throw a kick, and in a more stomp like motion, but never a part of a roundhouse. It would seem that you would need to clear the hips out a lot farther than in a normal roundhouse. I guess I'll have to give it a honest try and see if I can use it.

I know what you mean, using the teep to stop a round kick.

I trained in Hapkido a long time ago. We would do low round house kicks using the toe curled and the ball of the foot as the contact area. It was targeted at the knee cap, inner and outer thigh.

If the muay thai kick is like a baseball bat, the ball-foot roundhouse is like a hammer.

Ironpalm · 11-21-2004, 08:40 PM

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11-21-2004, 01:12 PM	#1 (permalink)
aku aku Registered User Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Oakdale, MN Posts: 209 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Round kick for self-defense problem Hello, I enjoy practicing the round kick and would like it to be a good self-defense tool, the problem is when I hit stuff. When I practice barefoot I generally hit the bag with the top of my foot and that is fine. When I have shoes on and I try to hit with the top of the foot it bothers my ankle. When I hit with the ball of my foot I hurt my toes, I pull them back but I don't know if I have the flexibility for it. My shoes also don't have the support needed to kick with the toes like the savate people do. I also practice the thai kick but I enjoy practicing the round kick and I don't want to get in the habit of throwing it if I can't land it effectively Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions? Thanks.

11-21-2004, 02:11 PM	#2 (permalink)
kung-fwho? Guest Posts: n/a	Don't do it man.... Yeah I have a suggestion. Don't throw it. Round kicks are for three things: (1) sissy's; (2) Jean-Claude Van Dame movie slow motion reels; and (3) to make you look like a bad ass on the bag. That's about it. Why don't you try working on your hand-to-hand techniques instead, they are much more effective than most kicks anyways....

11-21-2004, 03:54 PM	#3 (permalink)
Tom Yum Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Here and there. Posts: 11,307 Groans: 1 Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts	Trollerific. __________________ Love it, leave it or fix it.

11-21-2004, 04:48 PM	#6 (permalink)
Ironpalm Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 157 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	1234567890 __________________ In a land with no Tigers, even monkeys reign supreme.

11-21-2004, 06:39 PM	#7 (permalink)
Jeremy Lobdell Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 358 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Roundhouse kick. Being able to utelize a roundhouse kick effectively in a self defense situation should be a definite goal of any martial artist. Having said that, what you're striking with, how you set it up, and what targets your going for varries greatly depending on what art -style you practice. I focus primarily on the thai style kick to the outer thigh, making contact with my shin. This just seems to work best for me. I use it to close space to strike with my hands and-or look for the clinch for knee strikes and take down. It also works well to stop someone elses charge in, unless of cource you miss. In addition, while kicking a bag or other stationary target is good to develope technique and power, being able to use it against a live, moving, and hostile person is a significantly harder thing to due, but should be your ultimate goal. Mahalo, Jeremy __________________ "If you want to learn to fight, you must practice fighting against someone who is fighting back!" Burton Richardson

11-21-2004, 08:04 PM	#10 (permalink)
Ironpalm Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 157 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	1234567890 __________________ In a land with no Tigers, even monkeys reign supreme.

11-21-2004, 08:13 PM	#11 (permalink)
Jeremy Lobdell Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 358 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ignorance of TKD Ah, I see. I've never trained in TKD, so I can't voice an educated opinion about it or how it has changed over the years. While I train in live partner, realistic fighting, I try to use maximum power and make each strike count( obviously hitting focus mitts and kicking shields as opposed to the other person) as that is my general advantage, while being cautious not to overextend or take myself off balance. I always like the combo of faking the roundhouse and delivering the low front kick with the toe or ball of the foot to SP 6 on the opposite leg, especially if the groin is not an option. __________________ "If you want to learn to fight, you must practice fighting against someone who is fighting back!" Burton Richardson

11-21-2004, 08:21 PM	#12 (permalink)
Ironpalm Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 157 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	1234567890 __________________ In a land with no Tigers, even monkeys reign supreme.

11-21-2004, 08:40 PM	#15 (permalink)
Ironpalm Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 157 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	1234567890 __________________ In a land with no Tigers, even monkeys reign supreme.

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