Why do sports TKD participants don't keep hands up? - Page 9

dodgeduckdodge · 08-24-2007, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jubaji

That is just plain stupid.

Another profound answer from jubaji.

Alcohol

GranFire · 08-24-2007, 04:25 PM

nah, not stupid, just dumb luck...

Just because you have not been knocked out does not mean your technique is superior...

I did ask one of my trainers about that (yes, he read the thread, I send him the link) and while he grands you that much that dodging is best, he still drills the hands up into all of his students...and he has RL experience in TKD and other MA usage...

kitetsu · 10-12-2007, 06:50 AM

You know, i may be the 40th dan of absolute suck (barely 90 degrees of stretched leg angle, drunkard reflexes, brittle bones, slender but still like a sissy, started martial arts 12 years too late, bad back, over 2kg worth of fist impact, played too much Tekken), but i don't need a black belt and "real experience" obtained from fighting dozens of combatants to realize that keeping my hands up would get me a few broken arm bones instead of a severely fractured skull, brain damage with subsequent vegetative state, or death...

Sorry to burst your bubble, uncle, but if i was to choose between style or breaking more bones to quench sadistic thirst, i'd choose the latter.

Immortal · 11-11-2007, 05:15 AM

I haven't had a chance to finish reading all the info that's been included in this thread... But have learnt some things already. Figured it was about time to add my two bobs worth though...

First some background...

I'm a red belt 1 tip in tae kwon do... 3 gradings left to black. I have trainied in tae kwon do for 8 years. I also have a number of years western boxing experience... was about to start moving into the competition stages, when realised I'd grown bored of it and moved into Tae Kwon Do.

As a boxer, I know the value of keeping my guard up, and only too well the devestation that can result from a good hit on the noggin... My tae kwon do will not train any one for competition... They have a strict policy of training for self defence situations on the street & anything involving competition is not a situation you are likely to be confronted with on the street. I.e. Nobody is gonna stand there and go let me get a ref.

In my sparring sessions, I will always start with my hands around my head & keeping a good strong guard to protect my head... Call me crazy if you will, but I LOVE my head. Our instructors will always be yelling at everyone to keep their hands around their head, however once I have felt out my opponet, I will adjust my defence stance to best counter their abilities... I have learnt the hard way a number of times what a good quick swift kick to the groin area can do to a person... So If they are a head hunter, I will keep a high guard, if a groin hunter, I'll keep a low guard. If they are quite adept at groin & head hunting, I'll use a mid guard. A low or mid guard is no good unless you are reasonably confident at getting your hands up to your head in time to protect your head, but at the same time, a high guard is useless, when you've just been front kicked in the groin. I'm not PERFECT, far from it... I've had my fair share of mistakes over the last 20 years... I've had my nose broken 20+ times... it is so broken now, that it can't be broken any more... Hit me hard in the nose and I get some tears in my eyes and a major jonesing to exact some revenge, on the other side of the coin I've had a couple of days where I can't walk for a day or two...

Traditionally in tae Kwon Do, as it was an amalgamation of virtally all korean martial arts, there was little that was restricted in tae Kwon Do training... Just about anything went... It's been what is termed, "REFINEMENT" of the art that has removed a lot of techniques and Tae Kwon Do. The School I Train with are moving back to what I consider a more purist Tae kwon Do system, in so far as you can use any & all techniques required to win the life and death battle of a real fight... For this reason, many of our instructors have learnt Aikido, Boxing & Filipino Kali Sticks to incorporate into our Tae Kwon Do system. I myself have also studied Aikido & judo, so that I can use the ground as a greater opponent of my opponent, & Capoeria, to re-introduce the sweep kicks for overly high attackers... We emphasise evolution of the art for Self Defence, much as it was originally planned for. Having viewed some of the fights, I would use a different method again to solve the situation...

All competition fighters are very conservative fighters, holding back and waiting for an opening. When people do this I really on another method to win the confrontation, an old boxing and military mantra... "Maximum Speed, Power & Agression (Controlled)" This will 99% of the time create an opening. Of course the techniques I would be using would be very different to the rule book as well.

I'm always reminded of having a play spar with a mate of mine, a National Competitor in Tae Kwon Do three gradins above me at the time. He tried a head kick, at which I dropped low and swept the other leg... He said to me "You can't do that", I said "Do you see a ref?"

So a lot of your guard position comes down to what is comfortable and practical... i've never been in a competition, I find it offensive to my art, but it may just be that keeping a low guard is what they find convenient & practical.

Anyway, that my two bobs worth of a rant... Hopefully somebody finds it useful.

Immortal · 11-11-2007, 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kitetsu

but i don't need a black belt and "real experience" obtained from fighting dozens of combatants to realize that keeping my hands up would get me a few broken arm bones instead of a severely fractured skull, brain damage with subsequent vegetative state, or death...

I don't exactly follow what you are saying, and I'm no medical professional or anything, but in a fight situation where you've had your arms around your head, and somebody has just hit and broke them then

Quote:

Originally Posted by kitetsu

a severely fractured skull, brain damage with subsequent vegetative state, or death

is the next step anyway. Your arms will no longer be able to guard you against a second strike, so you are gonna have to rely on moving out of the way, anyway. And if you don't move out the way, the 2nd hit is gonna do all that to you anyway, while your trying to deal with the pain of broken arms.

Just an idea...

GranFire · 11-11-2007, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Immortal

I don't exactly follow what you are saying, and I'm no medical professional or anything, but in a fight situation where you've had your arms around your head, and somebody has just hit and broke them then is the next step anyway. Your arms will no longer be able to guard you against a second strike, so you are gonna have to rely on moving out of the way, anyway. And if you don't move out the way, the 2nd hit is gonna do all that to you anyway, while your trying to deal with the pain of broken arms.

Just an idea...

Might be true, but it does buy you a little extra time you don't have laying on the ground passed out.

08-24-2007, 04:25 PM	#122 (permalink)
GranFire Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: South East Posts: 587 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	nah, not stupid, just dumb luck... Just because you have not been knocked out does not mean your technique is superior... I did ask one of my trainers about that (yes, he read the thread, I send him the link) and while he grands you that much that dodging is best, he still drills the hands up into all of his students...and he has RL experience in TKD and other MA usage... __________________ Banner by www.fiveancestors.com http://itatigerforum.proboards103.com/ It's not the size of the dog in the fight - it's the size of the fight in the dog

10-12-2007, 06:50 AM	#123 (permalink)
kitetsu Registered User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: British and indian ocean territory Posts: 15 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	You know, i may be the 40th dan of absolute suck (barely 90 degrees of stretched leg angle, drunkard reflexes, brittle bones, slender but still like a sissy, started martial arts 12 years too late, bad back, over 2kg worth of fist impact, played too much Tekken), but i don't need a black belt and "real experience" obtained from fighting dozens of combatants to realize that keeping my hands up would get me a few broken arm bones instead of a severely fractured skull, brain damage with subsequent vegetative state, or death... Sorry to burst your bubble, uncle, but if i was to choose between style or breaking more bones to quench sadistic thirst, i'd choose the latter. __________________

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11-11-2007, 05:15 AM	#124 (permalink)
Immortal Registered User Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 2 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I haven't had a chance to finish reading all the info that's been included in this thread... But have learnt some things already. Figured it was about time to add my two bobs worth though... First some background... I'm a red belt 1 tip in tae kwon do... 3 gradings left to black. I have trainied in tae kwon do for 8 years. I also have a number of years western boxing experience... was about to start moving into the competition stages, when realised I'd grown bored of it and moved into Tae Kwon Do. As a boxer, I know the value of keeping my guard up, and only too well the devestation that can result from a good hit on the noggin... My tae kwon do will not train any one for competition... They have a strict policy of training for self defence situations on the street & anything involving competition is not a situation you are likely to be confronted with on the street. I.e. Nobody is gonna stand there and go let me get a ref. In my sparring sessions, I will always start with my hands around my head & keeping a good strong guard to protect my head... Call me crazy if you will, but I LOVE my head. Our instructors will always be yelling at everyone to keep their hands around their head, however once I have felt out my opponet, I will adjust my defence stance to best counter their abilities... I have learnt the hard way a number of times what a good quick swift kick to the groin area can do to a person... So If they are a head hunter, I will keep a high guard, if a groin hunter, I'll keep a low guard. If they are quite adept at groin & head hunting, I'll use a mid guard. A low or mid guard is no good unless you are reasonably confident at getting your hands up to your head in time to protect your head, but at the same time, a high guard is useless, when you've just been front kicked in the groin. I'm not PERFECT, far from it... I've had my fair share of mistakes over the last 20 years... I've had my nose broken 20+ times... it is so broken now, that it can't be broken any more... Hit me hard in the nose and I get some tears in my eyes and a major jonesing to exact some revenge, on the other side of the coin I've had a couple of days where I can't walk for a day or two... Traditionally in tae Kwon Do, as it was an amalgamation of virtally all korean martial arts, there was little that was restricted in tae Kwon Do training... Just about anything went... It's been what is termed, "REFINEMENT" of the art that has removed a lot of techniques and Tae Kwon Do. The School I Train with are moving back to what I consider a more purist Tae kwon Do system, in so far as you can use any & all techniques required to win the life and death battle of a real fight... For this reason, many of our instructors have learnt Aikido, Boxing & Filipino Kali Sticks to incorporate into our Tae Kwon Do system. I myself have also studied Aikido & judo, so that I can use the ground as a greater opponent of my opponent, & Capoeria, to re-introduce the sweep kicks for overly high attackers... We emphasise evolution of the art for Self Defence, much as it was originally planned for. Having viewed some of the fights, I would use a different method again to solve the situation... All competition fighters are very conservative fighters, holding back and waiting for an opening. When people do this I really on another method to win the confrontation, an old boxing and military mantra... "Maximum Speed, Power & Agression (Controlled)" This will 99% of the time create an opening. Of course the techniques I would be using would be very different to the rule book as well. I'm always reminded of having a play spar with a mate of mine, a National Competitor in Tae Kwon Do three gradins above me at the time. He tried a head kick, at which I dropped low and swept the other leg... He said to me "You can't do that", I said "Do you see a ref?" So a lot of your guard position comes down to what is comfortable and practical... i've never been in a competition, I find it offensive to my art, but it may just be that keeping a low guard is what they find convenient & practical. Anyway, that my two bobs worth of a rant... Hopefully somebody finds it useful.

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