Why do sports TKD participants don't keep hands up?

npk9 · 10-25-2005, 01:09 PM

Is there a reason why a majority of you guys don't keep your hands on in sport competition? I've just been watching a bunch TKD vids off the net after hearing someone kept talking about how they knocked someone out w/their high kicks. When I watch the vids - the kicks are awesome to say the least but the other guy never keeps their hands up. In fact no one keeps there hands up. This isn't meant to flame.

Andrew WA · 10-26-2005, 07:52 AM

becuase they are idiots and train like morons. They think if they put their hands up then it will give away points if the other guy kicks them in the chest. Its totally stupid. That and a lot of those olympic morons think they are too cool to keep their hands up and would rather look cool then do good. but it looks stupid.

eXcessiveForce · 10-26-2005, 10:13 AM

when it became olympic tkd hand strikes really lost scoring value, so that left only kicks to deal with. Since they had to have body jarring contact they could get more power by using the arms for momentum.

All in all it's pretty stupid to spar with your hands down but that is what they do. Recently I have seen it spreading into the other TKD systems. Knockouts waiting to happen.

IPON · 10-26-2005, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eXcessiveForce

when it became olympic tkd hand strikes really lost scoring value, so that left only kicks to deal with.

Hey excessiveforce - I never understood why that is the case. It seems that it would be mor difficult to land a punch than a kick. just curious

tkd_person89 · 10-26-2005, 10:15 PM

Sport guys are superb kickers....

They need to use punches in a real encounter thoug.

npk9 · 11-01-2005, 10:52 AM

Are dropping the hands a recent phenomena or has been always like that? I know that TKD has very good applications and has combative roots. But the thing that gets me is to not have your hands up is a fundamental rule. Actually its the first one in my book. I don't understand why the coaches would endorse this and then why have the players believe that it is transitional to others types of fighting.

eXcessiveForce · 11-01-2005, 11:04 AM

I'm not real sure why they decided. However I was told by others that it was to encourage more of the artful kicking. Otherwise people drop back to the basics most of the time. Front, round and side kicks.

About 12 years now for the hands being down. I was at the olympic festival where Taekwondo was added. At that time the US team was already sparring with their hands down and yelling at eachother and posturing. I remember thinking how absurd it looked and wondering why they didn't choose any decent fighters.

npk9 · 11-01-2005, 11:10 AM

I like TKD - its just a shame that the art has come to this. Is the Korea team the same? I mean is all across the board with the dropped hands or is it just the US that has this issue? I can only imagine how frustrating it is for all the TKD tradionalists. It kind of reminds of the TCMA vs Contemporary Wushu.

eXcessiveForce · 11-01-2005, 11:19 AM

Until about 3 years ago Songahm TKD did not drop their hands. But since introduction of chest protects in tournaments hands have dropped. It is annoying.

I tell my students I will personally knock them out if I catch them trying that crap. Tournaments are for fun, but they can teach bad habits if you aren't careful.

Olympic TKD is really to blame.

npk9 · 11-01-2005, 01:11 PM

Would be wrong of me to say that it doesn't take much to keep the hands up? I mean I know that it take more energy to keep them up while kicking but all that says is - the person kicking doesn't have enough core strength or endurance. I don't know.

okay - I'll drop this - I just thought maybe more TKD ppl would reply

The Munster · 11-01-2005, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eXcessiveForce

I tell my students I will personally knock them out if I catch them trying that crap. Tournaments are for fun, but they can teach bad habits if you aren't careful.

Completely agree.

Ironfist1989 · 11-02-2005, 03:04 PM

I suppose it varies where in the world you do TKD over in here in the UK we're encouraged to form a guard although a very useless guard in my view but it does allow you to move your hands to defend your chest and head region better but for me personally it doesn't feel a natural guard to form, it isn't a fixed boxing or Muay Tai guard

Bigoldandslow · 11-05-2005, 06:05 PM

I remember attending the Canadian Olympic Team Qualifications in about 1987. They were mostly Korean/Canadians. I noticed at that time how much they kept their hands down. When I went back to my school I asked the Master about it and he just smiled and said, "yes it is a problem.

Today I am constanly giving my students commands to keep their hands up.

In practical terms you have to remember that every tournement situation has artificial rules- I don't care what you are studying. Even UFC has rules and a false enviroment that dictates how the fight is going to go. Since it is in a small enclosed area, it absolutely is going to benefit the grappler.

With Olympic Tae Kwon Do you have to remember that speed and fluidity are the most essential attributes. The fact is you can move more smoothly and quickly with your hands down. If you watch the footwork of the Koreans and the better Olympic TKD practisioners you will see they are moving very fast and can get out of reach quickly. On top of that with the superior kicks they are more effective as distantance fighters. That is why they are not overly worried about keeping their hands up. They rely on their ability to keep people outside their vulnerable area. With Olympic style fighting I find myself doing the same and then bringing my hands up when it gets close.

THis is still no excuse for not being able to keep your hands up. I see it for what it is: a weakness on the part of many TKD fighters if they had to use it with other scenarios.

With my school I am in the process of recruiting other stylists to bring more versatility to my students. I went and visited a Hapkido instructor today and he is going to be coming out to help and will eventually have his own class to teach. I also will be exposing them to grappling, wrestling, Judo and boxing. I believe in the effectiveness to TKD so that is the base. I am not quite ignorant or arrogant enough to believe that other arts don't have something to offer.

Ironfist1989 · 11-05-2005, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigoldandslow

I remember attending the Canadian Olympic Team Qualifications in about 1987. They were mostly Korean/Canadians. I noticed at that time how much they kept their hands down. When I went back to my school I asked the Master about it and he just smiled and said, "yes it is a problem.

Today I am constanly giving my students commands to keep their hands up.

In practical terms you have to remember that every tournement situation has artificial rules- I don't care what you are studying. Even UFC has rules and a false enviroment that dictates how the fight is going to go. Since it is in a small enclosed area, it absolutely is going to benefit the grappler.

With Olympic Tae Kwon Do you have to remember that speed and fluidity are the most essential attributes. The fact is you can move more smoothly and quickly with your hands down. If you watch the footwork of the Koreans and the better Olympic TKD practisioners you will see they are moving very fast and can get out of reach quickly. On top of that with the superior kicks they are more effective as distantance fighters. That is why they are not overly worried about keeping their hands up. They rely on their ability to keep people outside their vulnerable area. With Olympic style fighting I find myself doing the same and then bringing my hands up when it gets close.

THis is still no excuse for not being able to keep your hands up. I see it for what it is: a weakness on the part of many TKD fighters if they had to use it with other scenarios.

With my school I am in the process of recruiting other stylists to bring more versatility to my students. I went and visited a Hapkido instructor today and he is going to be coming out to help and will eventually have his own class to teach. I also will be exposing them to grappling, wrestling, Judo and boxing. I believe in the effectiveness to TKD so that is the base. I am not quite ignorant or arrogant enough to believe that other arts don't have something to offer.

Sounds good what your doing to be honest, i wish my school did cross-training in other Martial Arts but i suppose then it wouldn't be a Tae Kwon Do class it would be known as a MMA school maybe thats why they don't do it cause the organisation i belong to want to stay true to Tae Kwon Do and its teachings which in fairness is an honest thing to do?? i suppose to gain knowledge in other arts i would have to look around at what there is which eventually plan to do

Bigoldandslow · 11-05-2005, 06:30 PM

We will still remain true to the art. You have to ask yourself what does that really mean however, especially with TKD. It has gone through more changes than any other Martial Art form.

This brings to mind the time I visited Moscow, Russia in 1997. All of the blackbelts that I trained with at the school (run by a Master Shin) had started out in Shotokan and held blackbelts in both. Master Shin had started in Shotokan and had a 4th degree in it when Glasnost hit and TKD was introduced. They switched over but still attended open Karate tournements and were able to effectively compete in a few different styles with different rules.

10-25-2005, 01:09 PM	#1 (permalink)
npk9 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: PA Posts: 146	Why do sports TKD participants don't keep hands up? Is there a reason why a majority of you guys don't keep your hands on in sport competition? I've just been watching a bunch TKD vids off the net after hearing someone kept talking about how they knocked someone out w/their high kicks. When I watch the vids - the kicks are awesome to say the least but the other guy never keeps their hands up. In fact no one keeps there hands up. This isn't meant to flame. __________________ I like to full-contact fight - do you?? If want a challenge - PM - we'll set something up! Seriously

10-26-2005, 07:52 AM	#2 (permalink)
Andrew WA Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Louisville, Kentucky, USA Posts: 254	becuase they are idiots and train like morons. They think if they put their hands up then it will give away points if the other guy kicks them in the chest. Its totally stupid. That and a lot of those olympic morons think they are too cool to keep their hands up and would rather look cool then do good. but it looks stupid. __________________ Zin-ji! Why are you so stupid?...If you hadn't let him escape...You will be executed now. Six months hard labor!

10-26-2005, 10:13 AM	#3 (permalink)
eXcessiveForce Excessive Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Missouri Posts: 2,827	when it became olympic tkd hand strikes really lost scoring value, so that left only kicks to deal with. Since they had to have body jarring contact they could get more power by using the arms for momentum. All in all it's pretty stupid to spar with your hands down but that is what they do. Recently I have seen it spreading into the other TKD systems. Knockouts waiting to happen. __________________ eXcessiveFORCE. If you must use force, make it excessive.

11-01-2005, 10:52 AM	#6 (permalink)
npk9 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: PA Posts: 146	Are dropping the hands a recent phenomena or has been always like that? I know that TKD has very good applications and has combative roots. But the thing that gets me is to not have your hands up is a fundamental rule. Actually its the first one in my book. I don't understand why the coaches would endorse this and then why have the players believe that it is transitional to others types of fighting. __________________ I like to full-contact fight - do you?? If want a challenge - PM - we'll set something up! Seriously

11-01-2005, 11:04 AM	#7 (permalink)
eXcessiveForce Excessive Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Missouri Posts: 2,827	I'm not real sure why they decided. However I was told by others that it was to encourage more of the artful kicking. Otherwise people drop back to the basics most of the time. Front, round and side kicks. About 12 years now for the hands being down. I was at the olympic festival where Taekwondo was added. At that time the US team was already sparring with their hands down and yelling at eachother and posturing. I remember thinking how absurd it looked and wondering why they didn't choose any decent fighters. __________________ eXcessiveFORCE. If you must use force, make it excessive.

10-26-2005, 10:15 PM	#5 (permalink)
tkd_person89 Guest Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 352	Sport guys are superb kickers.... They need to use punches in a real encounter thoug.

11-01-2005, 11:10 AM	#8 (permalink)
npk9 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: PA Posts: 146	I like TKD - its just a shame that the art has come to this. Is the Korea team the same? I mean is all across the board with the dropped hands or is it just the US that has this issue? I can only imagine how frustrating it is for all the TKD tradionalists. It kind of reminds of the TCMA vs Contemporary Wushu. __________________ I like to full-contact fight - do you?? If want a challenge - PM - we'll set something up! Seriously

11-01-2005, 11:19 AM	#9 (permalink)
eXcessiveForce Excessive Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Missouri Posts: 2,827	Until about 3 years ago Songahm TKD did not drop their hands. But since introduction of chest protects in tournaments hands have dropped. It is annoying. I tell my students I will personally knock them out if I catch them trying that crap. Tournaments are for fun, but they can teach bad habits if you aren't careful. Olympic TKD is really to blame. __________________ eXcessiveFORCE. If you must use force, make it excessive.

11-01-2005, 01:11 PM	#10 (permalink)
npk9 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: PA Posts: 146	Would be wrong of me to say that it doesn't take much to keep the hands up? I mean I know that it take more energy to keep them up while kicking but all that says is - the person kicking doesn't have enough core strength or endurance. I don't know. okay - I'll drop this - I just thought maybe more TKD ppl would reply __________________ I like to full-contact fight - do you?? If want a challenge - PM - we'll set something up! Seriously

11-02-2005, 03:04 PM	#12 (permalink)
Ironfist1989 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Telford, United Kingdom Posts: 32	I suppose it varies where in the world you do TKD over in here in the UK we're encouraged to form a guard although a very useless guard in my view but it does allow you to move your hands to defend your chest and head region better but for me personally it doesn't feel a natural guard to form, it isn't a fixed boxing or Muay Tai guard __________________ Be like Water, and Flow

11-05-2005, 06:05 PM	#13 (permalink)
Bigoldandslow Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 12	re: hands up I remember attending the Canadian Olympic Team Qualifications in about 1987. They were mostly Korean/Canadians. I noticed at that time how much they kept their hands down. When I went back to my school I asked the Master about it and he just smiled and said, "yes it is a problem. Today I am constanly giving my students commands to keep their hands up. In practical terms you have to remember that every tournement situation has artificial rules- I don't care what you are studying. Even UFC has rules and a false enviroment that dictates how the fight is going to go. Since it is in a small enclosed area, it absolutely is going to benefit the grappler. With Olympic Tae Kwon Do you have to remember that speed and fluidity are the most essential attributes. The fact is you can move more smoothly and quickly with your hands down. If you watch the footwork of the Koreans and the better Olympic TKD practisioners you will see they are moving very fast and can get out of reach quickly. On top of that with the superior kicks they are more effective as distantance fighters. That is why they are not overly worried about keeping their hands up. They rely on their ability to keep people outside their vulnerable area. With Olympic style fighting I find myself doing the same and then bringing my hands up when it gets close. THis is still no excuse for not being able to keep your hands up. I see it for what it is: a weakness on the part of many TKD fighters if they had to use it with other scenarios. With my school I am in the process of recruiting other stylists to bring more versatility to my students. I went and visited a Hapkido instructor today and he is going to be coming out to help and will eventually have his own class to teach. I also will be exposing them to grappling, wrestling, Judo and boxing. I believe in the effectiveness to TKD so that is the base. I am not quite ignorant or arrogant enough to believe that other arts don't have something to offer.

11-05-2005, 06:30 PM	#15 (permalink)
Bigoldandslow Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 12	Honest TKD We will still remain true to the art. You have to ask yourself what does that really mean however, especially with TKD. It has gone through more changes than any other Martial Art form. This brings to mind the time I visited Moscow, Russia in 1997. All of the blackbelts that I trained with at the school (run by a Master Shin) had started out in Shotokan and held blackbelts in both. Master Shin had started in Shotokan and had a 4th degree in it when Glasnost hit and TKD was introduced. They switched over but still attended open Karate tournements and were able to effectively compete in a few different styles with different rules.

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