ITF Sparring

Acitic · 10-27-2005, 08:53 PM

Hey Everybody,

I found this on another Forum, thought i would put it up here.

ITF Sparring

Respectfully,

Jonathan Henn

Piston · 10-28-2005, 01:20 PM

Nice video....pity the muay thai people who bash TKD on that forum don't realise that its a tornament so there are certain rules....Also the stupid bastard who said its wrong to not kick with your shin makes me laugh.

chopsueytkd123 · 10-28-2005, 01:58 PM

that first ko was fucking brutal!!! seriously y in the hell would he have his hands down that low...

Piston · 10-28-2005, 02:05 PM

Cuz that particular kick is brilliant, I imagine as he saw the fella who kicked him turn round he thought he was going for a reverse turning kick (i think thats the name for it) and completely fell for the dummy...A classic show of application of this particualr kick. I myself like chaining 2 or 3 of those moving forward and ending with an axe or reverse side kick.

Andrew WA · 11-01-2005, 11:33 AM

The first fight was fun to watch but the second got kind of boring it was so long.

What rules were they doing? I did not know ITF allowed full contact macthes with no headgear. And it did not seem like the point stop matches that you ussually see at ITF tournaments that are exactly like sport karate.

Also they did not punch to the head as often as most ITF people do. Infact I think they only did it once.

Piston · 11-01-2005, 01:20 PM

After green belt under ITF rules sparring is not point stop, not sure about the no helmet thing. I don't think that match was full contact, but that first KO does look a bit nasty...

Andrew WA · 11-01-2005, 02:17 PM

If he was able to knock him out it must have been full contact.

Every ITF school I have ever seen always wears all the pads and headgear and they always do point stop sparring. I have never seen them not. Maybe its just in kentucky or whatever but its good to know they wernt doing point stop sparring. I like the rules of no headgear and you can punch to the head. Its more like real fighting. But still kicks to the legs would be even nicer.

Piston · 11-01-2005, 04:40 PM

I think the reason that in ITF sparring points are only scored on the front of the chest and the head are as such:

It's not particularly difficult to hit someones legs with a kick really is it? Of course there are merits in hitting the leg (breaking/damaging of knees thighs making opponent drop guard etc.) but all the soft squishy parts of one's anatomy, the bits that really hurt when they are say... oh I don't know...kicked are located in the front torso/head area.

I think that the real purpose in training in sparring only to hit the torso and head is so that one can far more easily spot holes in an opponents guard and respond accordingly, thus in a 'real' situation end a fight or drop an opponent quicker.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Andrew WA · 11-02-2005, 09:11 AM

You are wrong so I will correct you.

Kicking the legs is a totally different fight then without it. Do you have any idea that kicks have to be made different to effectively hit the legs to make them hurt bad? You have to kick downard angles. When the legs are open fighting is a lot more scarey as well. A lot of the moves they do wouldnt be happening if legs were allowed. Guarding your entire body instead of just chest up is a lot harder as well. Leg kicks hurt soooo bad and sometimes are more damaging then any chest kick. Chests have a lot of ribs and abs and strong people dont even get phased if kicked at times. Legs have joints and bones to kick hard to cause dead legs and knee breaks. That is a lot more dangerous. That is the reason these styles dont allow leg kicks is because they think its dangerous and they are too afraid to allow it.

kuk sool won · 11-02-2005, 10:31 AM

I very much enjoyed that video, it showed how beautiful and effective TKD can be, that first kick would have probably put any man his size down, wether K-1, UFC, Boxing etc.

I suppose your right Andrew WA but i very much doubt they are 'too afraid' to allow it, to be honest i doubt it would effect TKD fighters THAT much being kicked to the thigh in comparison to other fighting styles, seeing as how TKD focuses strongly on the legs, they have toned legs and low kicks won't have that much effect unless it is extremely accurate. With that remark i could ask the question where do we stop? Do we allow elbows? headbutts? low blows? bites? or are they 'too afraid' to impliment it? there's a fine line between martial arts and scrapping...

Piston · 11-02-2005, 01:35 PM

Very well said Kuk Sool Won, think that clarifies my point further.

Andrew WA re-read my post, did I say kicking the legs is ineffective? Nope quite the opposite, its just that one can drop an opponent very quickly with a kick to the head (as the video shows). I myself in sparring will frequently dummy at the legs in order to create an opening higher up and score the point. However what I often find is that the better fighters in my class just ignore the lower kick, lifting the targeted leg and striking with it, makes sense huh?

Ironfist1989 · 11-02-2005, 03:46 PM

What a kick!!! i have to say i was impressed, i've just come back from my ITF Tae Kwon Do class and i won both my sparring matches yay for me, at first i thought the guy who won was gonna lose cause his guard was none existant but that kick was way empressive, one of my friends tried that move tonight on somesome but caught him in the throat lol

Andrew WA · 11-03-2005, 04:25 PM

Look I am a hardcore TKD fighter. TKD is awsome and the best art for me. But I kick to the legs as well. Its totally different then most mcdojangs rules. You may have tones legs if you actually practice a lot and lift weights. But getting them hit is another way to tone them. If you do not kick each others legs constantly for practice your legs will not hold up. Especially against a trained equally tones kyokoshin fightet who trains hard like what I mentioned. TKD needs to step it up or at least have alternative tournaments strictly for TKD to show its true effectiveness.

If you are not used to muy thai guys or whatever kicking your legs out from under you you will die in a fight against one. You need to constantly train openly. Also training in tournament rules its not wonder the good fighters of your school who excell in tournament TKD ignore your low kicks. Because they dont need to pay attention to kicks that dont score points plus your not actually going to kick them down there because its against the rules!

You need to go for it and be an ass one day and kick their legs so hard and seriously try to hurt them and you tell me if they still ignore your kicks. Most likely at the risk of your instructore getting pissed at you and saying your disrespectful for being real.

Not kicking the legs and saying you dont need to worry is like putting a boxer against a kicker and saying he is too good to care about kicks to his chest or head and strictly punching training is enough...

Dont forget knees as well or the freaking clinch!!! You know poomse tae guk chil jung right? There is a fricken clinch in that form plus a knee. Use it!!!

Andrew WA · 11-03-2005, 04:27 PM

oh and im not saying those videos sucked. That tornado kick was awsome and shows it can actually be done and work! Awsome! But its risky.

Piston · 11-03-2005, 04:37 PM

Mate I'm not saying you shouldn't kick to the legs

please please, *please* read my posts a little closer, I'm just giving the reason why we don't kick at the legs for sparring. I've sparred against MT guys and yes their leg kicks are effective, but only when they manage to catch my legs ok?

10-27-2005, 08:53 PM	#1 (permalink)
Acitic Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Calgary Posts: 175 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	ITF Sparring Hey Everybody, I found this on another Forum, thought i would put it up here. ITF Sparring Respectfully, Jonathan Henn __________________ "Some of us are like a 10 speed bike; most of us have gears we never use." - Joe Eigo "the greatest gift that martial arts can give is destruction of the ego" "Life is just a mountain, and each martial art is just another way to the top." www.arniscalgary.com

10-28-2005, 01:58 PM	#3 (permalink)
chopsueytkd123 Registered User Join Date: May 2005 Location: State College, PA Posts: 10 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	brutal fking ko!** that first ko was fucking brutal!!! seriously y in the hell would he have his hands down that low... __________________ Those who live forever never really lived......

11-01-2005, 11:33 AM	#5 (permalink)
Andrew WA Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Louisville, Kentucky, USA Posts: 254 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	The first fight was fun to watch but the second got kind of boring it was so long. What rules were they doing? I did not know ITF allowed full contact macthes with no headgear. And it did not seem like the point stop matches that you ussually see at ITF tournaments that are exactly like sport karate. Also they did not punch to the head as often as most ITF people do. Infact I think they only did it once. __________________ Zin-ji! Why are you so stupid?...If you hadn't let him escape...You will be executed now. Six months hard labor!

11-01-2005, 02:17 PM	#7 (permalink)
Andrew WA Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Louisville, Kentucky, USA Posts: 254 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	If he was able to knock him out it must have been full contact. Every ITF school I have ever seen always wears all the pads and headgear and they always do point stop sparring. I have never seen them not. Maybe its just in kentucky or whatever but its good to know they wernt doing point stop sparring. I like the rules of no headgear and you can punch to the head. Its more like real fighting. But still kicks to the legs would be even nicer. __________________ Zin-ji! Why are you so stupid?...If you hadn't let him escape...You will be executed now. Six months hard labor!

11-02-2005, 09:11 AM	#9 (permalink)
Andrew WA Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Louisville, Kentucky, USA Posts: 254 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	You are wrong so I will correct you. Kicking the legs is a totally different fight then without it. Do you have any idea that kicks have to be made different to effectively hit the legs to make them hurt bad? You have to kick downard angles. When the legs are open fighting is a lot more scarey as well. A lot of the moves they do wouldnt be happening if legs were allowed. Guarding your entire body instead of just chest up is a lot harder as well. Leg kicks hurt soooo bad and sometimes are more damaging then any chest kick. Chests have a lot of ribs and abs and strong people dont even get phased if kicked at times. Legs have joints and bones to kick hard to cause dead legs and knee breaks. That is a lot more dangerous. That is the reason these styles dont allow leg kicks is because they think its dangerous and they are too afraid to allow it. __________________ Zin-ji! Why are you so stupid?...If you hadn't let him escape...You will be executed now. Six months hard labor!

10-28-2005, 01:20 PM	#2 (permalink)
Piston Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 307 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Nice video....pity the muay thai people who bash TKD on that forum don't realise that its a tornament so there are certain rules....Also the stupid bastard who said its wrong to not kick with your shin makes me laugh.

10-28-2005, 02:05 PM	#4 (permalink)
Piston Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 307 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Cuz that particular kick is brilliant, I imagine as he saw the fella who kicked him turn round he thought he was going for a reverse turning kick (i think thats the name for it) and completely fell for the dummy...A classic show of application of this particualr kick. I myself like chaining 2 or 3 of those moving forward and ending with an axe or reverse side kick.

11-01-2005, 01:20 PM	#6 (permalink)
Piston Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 307 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	After green belt under ITF rules sparring is not point stop, not sure about the no helmet thing. I don't think that match was full contact, but that first KO does look a bit nasty...

11-01-2005, 04:40 PM	#8 (permalink)
Piston Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 307 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I think the reason that in ITF sparring points are only scored on the front of the chest and the head are as such: It's not particularly difficult to hit someones legs with a kick really is it? Of course there are merits in hitting the leg (breaking/damaging of knees thighs making opponent drop guard etc.) but all the soft squishy parts of one's anatomy, the bits that really hurt when they are say... oh I don't know...kicked are located in the front torso/head area. I think that the real purpose in training in sparring only to hit the torso and head is so that one can far more easily spot holes in an opponents guard and respond accordingly, thus in a 'real' situation end a fight or drop an opponent quicker. Correct me if I'm wrong.

11-02-2005, 10:31 AM	#10 (permalink)
kuk sool won Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: UK Posts: 570 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I very much enjoyed that video, it showed how beautiful and effective TKD can be, that first kick would have probably put any man his size down, wether K-1, UFC, Boxing etc. I suppose your right Andrew WA but i very much doubt they are 'too afraid' to allow it, to be honest i doubt it would effect TKD fighters THAT much being kicked to the thigh in comparison to other fighting styles, seeing as how TKD focuses strongly on the legs, they have toned legs and low kicks won't have that much effect unless it is extremely accurate. With that remark i could ask the question where do we stop? Do we allow elbows? headbutts? low blows? bites? or are they 'too afraid' to impliment it? there's a fine line between martial arts and scrapping... __________________ '...You cannot shake hands with a clenched fist...'

11-02-2005, 01:35 PM	#11 (permalink)
Piston Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 307 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Very well said Kuk Sool Won, think that clarifies my point further. Andrew WA re-read my post, did I say kicking the legs is ineffective? Nope quite the opposite, its just that one can drop an opponent very quickly with a kick to the head (as the video shows). I myself in sparring will frequently dummy at the legs in order to create an opening higher up and score the point. However what I often find is that the better fighters in my class just ignore the lower kick, lifting the targeted leg and striking with it, makes sense huh?

11-02-2005, 03:46 PM	#12 (permalink)
Ironfist1989 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Telford, United Kingdom Posts: 32 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	What a kick!!! i have to say i was impressed, i've just come back from my ITF Tae Kwon Do class and i won both my sparring matches yay for me, at first i thought the guy who won was gonna lose cause his guard was none existant but that kick was way empressive, one of my friends tried that move tonight on somesome but caught him in the throat lol __________________ Be like Water, and Flow

11-03-2005, 04:25 PM	#13 (permalink)
Andrew WA Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Louisville, Kentucky, USA Posts: 254 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Look I am a hardcore TKD fighter. TKD is awsome and the best art for me. But I kick to the legs as well. Its totally different then most mcdojangs rules. You may have tones legs if you actually practice a lot and lift weights. But getting them hit is another way to tone them. If you do not kick each others legs constantly for practice your legs will not hold up. Especially against a trained equally tones kyokoshin fightet who trains hard like what I mentioned. TKD needs to step it up or at least have alternative tournaments strictly for TKD to show its true effectiveness. If you are not used to muy thai guys or whatever kicking your legs out from under you you will die in a fight against one. You need to constantly train openly. Also training in tournament rules its not wonder the good fighters of your school who excell in tournament TKD ignore your low kicks. Because they dont need to pay attention to kicks that dont score points plus your not actually going to kick them down there because its against the rules! You need to go for it and be an ass one day and kick their legs so hard and seriously try to hurt them and you tell me if they still ignore your kicks. Most likely at the risk of your instructore getting pissed at you and saying your disrespectful for being real. Not kicking the legs and saying you dont need to worry is like putting a boxer against a kicker and saying he is too good to care about kicks to his chest or head and strictly punching training is enough... Dont forget knees as well or the freaking clinch!!! You know poomse tae guk chil jung right? There is a fricken clinch in that form plus a knee. Use it!!! __________________ Zin-ji! Why are you so stupid?...If you hadn't let him escape...You will be executed now. Six months hard labor!

11-03-2005, 04:27 PM	#14 (permalink)
Andrew WA Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Louisville, Kentucky, USA Posts: 254 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	oh and im not saying those videos sucked. That tornado kick was awsome and shows it can actually be done and work! Awsome! But its risky. __________________ Zin-ji! Why are you so stupid?...If you hadn't let him escape...You will be executed now. Six months hard labor!

11-03-2005, 04:37 PM	#15 (permalink)
Piston Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 307 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Mate I'm not saying you shouldn't kick to the legs please please, please read my posts a little closer, I'm just giving the reason why we don't kick at the legs for sparring. I've sparred against MT guys and yes their leg kicks are effective, but only when they manage to catch my legs ok?

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