WildWest.

Its hard to compare peoples levels after you've crossed over into other styles. I got to BB in Taekwondo when I was 17 after starting at 12 so I had some experience behind me when I earnt the belt and some good skills.....but little knowledge as I was only 17 and just didn't understand what I know now about the MA's. I then moved onto Muay Thai and have been doing that since. Over the last couple of years I have picked up Hapkido which is awesome, but I could already out spar the highest ranked students and instructor as a white belt. What does that mean? Nothing really. In a real fight though I think my instructor would probably beat me...he knows a lot of dirty tricks.

The BB serves the individuals ego. I don't think people should read into the belt system too much, but I can understand a MA students need for accomplishment when they start to train. After they build up experience then they will see the belt system for what it is. Unfortunately some people never see it and will continue to live in "Movieland".

__________________
"Only one of us knows illegal ninja moves from the government"

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kuk sool won

I think the rank you are in a belt system seems to matter more to people outside of the art than those actually practising it. If i said i have a blue belt in TKD it obviously doesn't sound as impressive as saying i have a black belt. Everyone knows their own ability and what they can do. I'm still only brown belt in my current art KSW but i know in my heart my sparring far supasses most browns, blacks and instructors. Then again my techniques are mediocre and my form isn't perfect. Im happy at the belt level i am at, i wouldn't mind if i had to start all over as white belt again or get rushed to black, it seems to get a lot less meaningful once you get integrated into the art, but it will always carry a meaning. im proud of the belts i have achieved in all arts and i keep them on display because to me it sets as a mile stone, i can think back to my ability then and compare it to now, when looking back at my first white belt i can remember my unfocused punchs, sloppy kicks and misunderstanding of each 'technique' and their uses. I can remember my hip toss was all down to brute force and my wrist locks didn't lock at all, oh how times have changed...

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akio123

Mr Miyagi on karate kid.....

Daniel: Hey, what kind of belt do you have?
Miyagi: Canvas. JC Penny. Three ninety-eight. You like?
[laughs]
Daniel: No, I meant...
Miyagi: Daniel-san... karate here.
[he taps his head]
Miyagi: Karate here.
[he taps his heart]
Miyagi: Karate never here
[points to his belt]
Miyagi: Understand?

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Famous Karate Kid quote....
Daniel: Hey, what kind of belt do you have?
Miyagi: Canvas. JC Penney, 3.98; You like?
Daniel: [laughs] No, I meant...
Miyagi: In Okinawa, belt mean no need rope to hold up pants.
Miyagi: [laughs; then, seriously] Daniel-san,
Miyagi: [he taps his head] Karate here.
Miyagi: [he taps his heart] Karate here.
Miyagi: [points to his belt] Karate never here. Understand?

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Piston

Again the wisdom of Mr.Miyagi shines like a beacon for all of us.

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dodgeduckdodge

Interesting reading for sure.

The Dan was orignally given out in the Japanese game "GO" and was based on skill. It is also given out in Japanese and Korean Dance. From there it took the place of the Samurai Menkyo and eventually took on more meaning. One thing for sure is it certainly has little to do with fighting ability. Early on in this thread I was reading where some 1st Dan felt he could beat up some 2nd and 3rd Dan's. Maybe he could, but there are white belts and no-belts that could beat up that 1st Dan, no problem. So what does that mean? Mike Tyson should be a 10th Dan? No. Talking about Dan in terms of fighting skill is juvenile.

DAN today is about your relationship with your instructor, seniors and your place in your organization. Whatever skill, knowledge, intellegence, ettiqute, politics, time in the system you have is your own and not comparible to others. Of course your reputation within your organization might be based on those qualities.

Alcohol

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ITFDespoja

it would depend on the person what the black belt symbolizes

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dodgeduckdodge

This is true.

I have heard some radical statements on what a black belt means.

For myself, it was important for me to find out what the Dan means in Japan and Korea.

Alcohol

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suhieb

I think that a black belt shows the practitionsers commitment to the martial art as they wil have constantly train over a substantial time period to become "skilled" enough to recieve the "award". The Black belt also shows the experience as mentioed in an above post. The one thing i think that a black belt is not a symbol of is : overall fighting ability

This is because some martial arts practitioners may have recieved there black belt by learning froms (Kata's). These do teach how to fight but only from the forms perspective eg. you go into stance A if your opponent is in stance B.

I think that the only way to judge fighting ability is through sparring, competeions etc and also look at the techniques that a practitioner can perform

Suhieb

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JStinson

A black belt is nothing more than a white belt that never quit!

__________________
J Stinson
Stinson's Korean Martial Arts Academy
Glasgow, KY

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suhieb

LoL that is sure one way to put it and a very true statement

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shaolin-warrior

I agree with you. First Dan or Shodan is for technical merit.What I mean by that is a good working knowledge of the criteria or curriculum taught at that particular school.Second Dan or Nidan we did a lot of full contact fighting and ground and pound. It took three weeks to grow all the skin back that got scrubbed off my feet and ankle bones from being dragged all over those mats. And that was a Kempo test.

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[" And although we may do our best to avoid trouble, sometimes trouble insists on finding us. When that happens......when the time for talk is over, warriors act. They flip the switch and act decisively - ruthlessly if necessary - to preserve and defend the things that they hold dear."
Michael D. Janiich Why being a warrior starts with accepting the limitations of peace.

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PlasmaShock

A blackbelt symbolizes money

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ledfut

i would have to say this is the most accurate answer. i've seen some people that were very bad at executing technique, but were very good at teaching technique make it to black belt. it takes them about twice as long to achieve black belt, but to say that they don't deserve it because they can't execute as well is a bit ludicrous.

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kanik

In an ideal world the blackbelt would mean all of the above... BUT we are in a world where martial arts are run by money hungry, greedy, crap-wads. SO yeah. Now-a-days a black belt only seems to mean you have been doing whatever art for whatever amount of time. Or you have some minimum amount of knowledge needed for one.

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dodgeduckdodge

Now-a-days?

That's what black belt meant when it first came into popular use, back in the late 1920's. Nothing has changed except people's fantastic ideas of what black belt means to them, and what they think it should mean to others.

Alcohol

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