The Ultimate in Martial Arts

kanik · 08-11-2007, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dodgeduckdodge

Now-a-days?

That's what black belt meant when it first came into popular use, back in the late 1920's. Nothing has changed except people's fantastic ideas of what black belt means to them, and what they think it should mean to others.

Alcohol

Hmmm... good point, you sure showed me ^_^

dodgeduckdodge · 08-12-2007, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kanik

Hmmm... good point, you sure showed me ^_^

That's what I thought too.

Alcohol

kanik · 08-12-2007, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dodgeduckdodge

That's what I thought too.

Alcohol

Well I aint gonna try and justify my stupidity, because that would be... well... stupid! All I can say is. Oh damn, there goes me making dumb-ass assumptions again. But seriously, what you said makes perfect sence, good job pulling me up on that. ^_^

wsdddoa012 · 09-02-2007, 02:14 AM

Well since the black belt nowdays seems to mean soo many things to different people, I thought I'd just give my two cents now.

"The only thing the belt is good for is holding your pants up, let's spar shall we?"

Maturity in the arts, and holding your pants up. Seem too complicated? I still say we should go back to the old days when all the students wore a white belt, never washed it and as the years grew the belt became different colors because of the long time of training, green, yellow, brown then after about 20-30 years maybe black. But of course that's up for speculation, I think It's a good concept myself. Tell that to any of my students

BTW: would a loop belt be better then a strap on belt for my size 80 jeans? haha!!!

kanik · 09-02-2007, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wsdddoa012

Well since the black belt nowdays seems to mean soo many things to different people, I thought I'd just give my two cents now.

"The only thing the belt is good for is holding your pants up, let's spar shall we?"

Maturity in the arts, and holding your pants up. Seem too complicated? I still say we should go back to the old days when all the students wore a white belt, never washed it and as the years grew the belt became different colors because of the long time of training, green, yellow, brown then after about 20-30 years maybe black. But of course that's up for speculation, I think It's a good concept myself. Tell that to any of my students

BTW: would a loop belt be better then a strap on belt for my size 80 jeans? haha!!!

Great response! I like that quote!! I also kinda gree with the white belt and never wash thingy too.

dodgeduckdodge · 09-03-2007, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wsdddoa012

Well since the black belt nowdays seems to mean soo many things to different people, I thought I'd just give my two cents now.

"The only thing the belt is good for is holding your pants up, let's spar shall we?"

Maturity in the arts, and holding your pants up. Seem too complicated? I still say we should go back to the old days when all the students wore a white belt, never washed it and as the years grew the belt became different colors because of the long time of training, green, yellow, brown then after about 20-30 years maybe black. But of course that's up for speculation, I think It's a good concept myself. Tell that to any of my students

BTW: would a loop belt be better then a strap on belt for my size 80 jeans? haha!!!

That is a myth. It never was that way in the "old days".

Jigoro Kano invented the use of the color belt system back in the later 1800's for his Elementary school Judo students. Gichin Funakoshi copied the idea for Karate, then it took off from there. The original colors were white, red and black, the official colors of Japan at that time.

Alcohol

KickNit · 09-27-2007, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shaolin-warrior

That is the beauty of Karate in my eyes. I as a student can set my own bar and my own expectations to either meet or exceed that of my instructor. It is an individual "sport" for lack of a better word. I don't have to worry that the person next to me can't go the distance, my sucesses and failures are based solely on my efforts.

Well, that depends on whether you are involved in competition or not. If so then it isn't so individual after all because the performance of your team mates determines the success of the team. I'd say Karate at its best is an individual sport because I like it one on one. But it can be a team sport.

darrianation · 09-27-2007, 03:13 PM

This has probably already been said but a black belt means to me nothing more than a marketing ploy to dupe the unsuspecting out of their hard earned cash.

Obviously I didn't vote becuase the most correct answer wasn't there.

bodhisattva · 01-07-2008, 09:02 AM

I always heard the belt system actually came from an American, post world war. He was teaching Karate in America, something he found during the world wa - and to his surprise he found that Americans want a series of short-term goals as they work towards a long term goal.

the problem was his Karate had two belts - white and black. And he couldn't keep people interested long enough on the journey to black belt (it was too much of a long term goal to hold their interest for long) so he came up with small stair steps on the way to black belt - so the Americans could focus on short term goals.

Even during the time I spent studying Judo, I never heard that Jigoro Kano was the "inventer of the belt system."

But it may well be true, because my story up above is just anecdotal information passed around a classroom that claimed it taught "self-defense" and in reality only taught some weird dance moves that weren't good for self-defense, and weren't much good for dance, either.

--

In answer to your question, what does a black belt symbolize, it depends on the system. In most traditional martial art classes, a black belt signifies that you showed up to class, paid your fees to attend the class, did some movements in the air for hours, learned some semi-acrobatic kicks and self-defense moves that wouldn't work on Grandma.

However, in a BJJ curriculum, the belts are handed out for performance - fighting ability. If you can hang with the blue belts then you will eventually find yourself receiving a blue belt. It's all based on actual fighting performance - and its the only kind of "belt system" I care about.

It's a really, really, really good thing to have a belt system based on performance. People actually learn to fight!

bodhisattva · 01-07-2008, 11:38 AM

It would be funnier if she ducked it, threw him to the ground, and went to stomping..

Huntley · 03-28-2008, 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by medic06

What does a black truly symbolize?

To me it's experience.

I'm a 5th Dan but I know I was better as a 3rd or 4th Dan, so I can't say that I'm better than an 18 year old 3rd Dan just skill. And I’m a much better coach at 34 than I was at 18…so experience is my answer.

KarateOx · 06-27-2009, 12:09 PM

I always viewed the Black Belt like a driver's license. You have to learn all the basics before you get your license. Where to stop, where to yield, how many feet behind a fire engine, how to park, etc. You also have to learn all the physical aspects. Actual driving, braking, parking, 3k turn, etc. Then you have to put them all together, the theory AND the practical, before you can take your test. Then you take your test and either pass or fail. Once you pass, you get your driver's license and are now free to drive on your own. However, as anyone here who drives knows, NOW is the time where true knowledge and understanding of driving takes place. Now is when you hydroplane on a wet road. Now is when you have a child run out in front of you. Now is when you have to deal with someone suddenly cutting you off or stopping suddenly in front of you. Now is when you experience all these driving difficulties and have to put all you have learned into use. You start to develop your own diving style and your very own understanding of driving. I believe the Black belt is the same thing. From white to black is all the basics. Once you reach your Sho-dan, that is when TRUE understanding of Karate, or whatever art it is you study, takes place. Now is when you apply what you have learned, to either teach others or yourself, or to defend yourself. THIS is when the real learning takes place. Don't know where exactly in tot poll this puts me, but... well, there ya have my .02 cents. LOL.

Ben Grimm · 06-29-2009, 02:56 AM

Today, a black belt means jack all. There are so many McDojos out there which have destroyed the image of martial arts for the almighty dollar.

WildWest. · 07-01-2009, 05:48 PM

A black belt is......a belt that is black.

ShadowAce · 07-02-2009, 05:19 PM

I have my second degree black belt in Hapkido and Ive been working on that for eight years. I received my first black belt under my uncle's studio, and then my second training with the person who taught him. Four years at each studio. I slept with ice packs atleast twice a week. I think thats the way to do it. Be sore. Be very sore. But keep going.
A black belt should show others you have the emotional intelligence and the true character to earn what it is you desire. Not the belt itself, but the level of personal mastery, the satisfaction, the truth that you were strong enough, devoted enough, to train and try till it hurt and until you got it right.
But thats only how I view it. There are many drives people hold towards getting a black belt. Mine was not a grab for power, or ego, or control. I wanted to prove to myself that I was strong enough. Inside. Deep down that the real me, the REAL me could take it. And when I was handed my first black belt my heart pumped satisfaction, and pride. Not arrogance, or pride to be shown to anyone else. But pride in myself. I had done what I wasnt sure I could do. I was proud of myself.
Maybe this sounds cheesy or ignorant. But my black belt means alot to me. Thats all it really should count for. What it means to you.

View Poll Results: A Black Belt represents
knowledge	10	14.93%
skill	5	7.46%
experience	18	26.87%
overall fighting ability	1	1.49%
all of the above	33	49.25%
Voters: 67. You may not vote on this poll

09-02-2007, 02:14 AM	#64 (permalink)
wsdddoa012 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 88 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	black belt response Well since the black belt nowdays seems to mean soo many things to different people, I thought I'd just give my two cents now. "The only thing the belt is good for is holding your pants up, let's spar shall we?" Maturity in the arts, and holding your pants up. Seem too complicated? I still say we should go back to the old days when all the students wore a white belt, never washed it and as the years grew the belt became different colors because of the long time of training, green, yellow, brown then after about 20-30 years maybe black. But of course that's up for speculation, I think It's a good concept myself. Tell that to any of my students BTW: would a loop belt be better then a strap on belt for my size 80 jeans? haha!!! __________________ Mike Senior Chief Instructor

09-27-2007, 03:13 PM	#68 (permalink)
darrianation Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 2,161 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	This has probably already been said but a black belt means to me nothing more than a marketing ploy to dupe the unsuspecting out of their hard earned cash. Obviously I didn't vote becuase the most correct answer wasn't there. __________________ The law of tyranny: 1. Any power that can be abused will be abused 2. Abuse always expands to fill the limits of resistance to it. 3. If people don't resist the abuses of others, they will have no one to resist the abuses of themselves, and tyranny will prevail. Welcome to the Socialist States of Amerika . Coming soon Jan 20th 2009!

01-07-2008, 09:02 AM	#69 (permalink)
bodhisattva Registered User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: nowhere Posts: 586 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hm. I always heard... I always heard the belt system actually came from an American, post world war. He was teaching Karate in America, something he found during the world wa - and to his surprise he found that Americans want a series of short-term goals as they work towards a long term goal. the problem was his Karate had two belts - white and black. And he couldn't keep people interested long enough on the journey to black belt (it was too much of a long term goal to hold their interest for long) so he came up with small stair steps on the way to black belt - so the Americans could focus on short term goals. Even during the time I spent studying Judo, I never heard that Jigoro Kano was the "inventer of the belt system." But it may well be true, because my story up above is just anecdotal information passed around a classroom that claimed it taught "self-defense" and in reality only taught some weird dance moves that weren't good for self-defense, and weren't much good for dance, either. -- In answer to your question, what does a black belt symbolize, it depends on the system. In most traditional martial art classes, a black belt signifies that you showed up to class, paid your fees to attend the class, did some movements in the air for hours, learned some semi-acrobatic kicks and self-defense moves that wouldn't work on Grandma. However, in a BJJ curriculum, the belts are handed out for performance - fighting ability. If you can hang with the blue belts then you will eventually find yourself receiving a blue belt. It's all based on actual fighting performance - and its the only kind of "belt system" I care about. It's a really, really, really good thing to have a belt system based on performance. People actually learn to fight! __________________ St. Louis MMA Training Club - MMA Boxing / Clinch / Submission Grappling / Wrestling Gym Portland MMA Training Club: MMA Boxing / Brazilian Jiu Jitsu / Greco Roman Wrestling

01-07-2008, 11:38 AM	#70 (permalink)
bodhisattva Registered User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: nowhere Posts: 586 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	It would be funnier if she ducked it, threw him to the ground, and went to stomping.. __________________ St. Louis MMA Training Club - MMA Boxing / Clinch / Submission Grappling / Wrestling Gym Portland MMA Training Club: MMA Boxing / Brazilian Jiu Jitsu / Greco Roman Wrestling

06-27-2009, 12:09 PM	#72 (permalink)
KarateOx Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 3 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I always viewed the Black Belt like a driver's license. You have to learn all the basics before you get your license. Where to stop, where to yield, how many feet behind a fire engine, how to park, etc. You also have to learn all the physical aspects. Actual driving, braking, parking, 3k turn, etc. Then you have to put them all together, the theory AND the practical, before you can take your test. Then you take your test and either pass or fail. Once you pass, you get your driver's license and are now free to drive on your own. However, as anyone here who drives knows, NOW is the time where true knowledge and understanding of driving takes place. Now is when you hydroplane on a wet road. Now is when you have a child run out in front of you. Now is when you have to deal with someone suddenly cutting you off or stopping suddenly in front of you. Now is when you experience all these driving difficulties and have to put all you have learned into use. You start to develop your own diving style and your very own understanding of driving. I believe the Black belt is the same thing. From white to black is all the basics. Once you reach your Sho-dan, that is when TRUE understanding of Karate, or whatever art it is you study, takes place. Now is when you apply what you have learned, to either teach others or yourself, or to defend yourself. THIS is when the real learning takes place. Don't know where exactly in tot poll this puts me, but... well, there ya have my .02 cents. LOL.

06-29-2009, 02:56 AM	#73 (permalink)
Ben Grimm Registered User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: China Posts: 622 Groans: 13 Groaned at 26 Times in 26 Posts	Today, a black belt means jack all. There are so many McDojos out there which have destroyed the image of martial arts for the almighty dollar. __________________ Any man who can drive safely while kissing a pretty girl is simply not giving the kiss the attention it deserves. Albert Einstein When you are courting a nice girl an hour seems like a second. When you sit on a red-hot cinder a second seems like an hour. That's relativity. Albert Einstein

07-01-2009, 05:48 PM	#74 (permalink)
WildWest. Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: NZ Posts: 684 Groans: 2 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	A black belt is......a belt that is black. __________________ "Only one of us knows illegal ninja moves from the government" Last edited by WildWest.; 07-01-2009 at 05:48 PM. Reason: typo

07-02-2009, 05:19 PM	#75 (permalink)
ShadowAce Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 6 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I have my second degree black belt in Hapkido and Ive been working on that for eight years. I received my first black belt under my uncle's studio, and then my second training with the person who taught him. Four years at each studio. I slept with ice packs atleast twice a week. I think thats the way to do it. Be sore. Be very sore. But keep going. A black belt should show others you have the emotional intelligence and the true character to earn what it is you desire. Not the belt itself, but the level of personal mastery, the satisfaction, the truth that you were strong enough, devoted enough, to train and try till it hurt and until you got it right. But thats only how I view it. There are many drives people hold towards getting a black belt. Mine was not a grab for power, or ego, or control. I wanted to prove to myself that I was strong enough. Inside. Deep down that the real me, the REAL me could take it. And when I was handed my first black belt my heart pumped satisfaction, and pride. Not arrogance, or pride to be shown to anyone else. But pride in myself. I had done what I wasnt sure I could do. I was proud of myself. Maybe this sounds cheesy or ignorant. But my black belt means alot to me. Thats all it really should count for. What it means to you.

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