TKD forms

Eric Daniel · 12-09-2005, 04:56 PM

Guys,
I have heard that the forms practiced the way hee il cho teaches has some origin in Shotokan Karate forms. What do you think?

Maxx · 12-09-2005, 05:51 PM

The forms that Grandmaster Hee Il Cho teaches are known as the "Chang Hon" pattern set or sometimes called the Chon ji patterns. They are the pattern set used exclusively by the ITF though the way that the ITF and GM Hee Il Cho teach and practice them vary. There are 24 patterns in this pattern set that were originaly developed by General Choi Hong Hi. It is well known that General Choi studied Shotokan for some time and learned the Pinan/Heian pattern set during that time. While there are definite differences between the Chang Hon Pattern set and the Pinan forms, you can definitely see parallels between the two sets, especially in the lower ranked forms such as Dan Gun, Do San and Won Hyo.

I only learned a few of the Pinan Patterns and that was over a decade ago and I was shocked at how close some of the patterns were to the Chang Hon set. I'm sure that some of the more advanced patterns in the Chang Hon set are most likely original creations though.

brokenelbow · 12-09-2005, 10:49 PM

You can tell the Chang Hon set is derived from the Shotokan heian kata. Generally I prefer the heian but I like a few of the Chang Hon when working out. I think Choi "broke" some of the techniques in heian when he re-arranged them, but he moved some good techniques up into them too.

Maxx · 12-10-2005, 07:38 PM

Since we're on this topic, does anyone happen to know just how many different sets of TKD Forms there are? I know of the Chang Hon Pattern set, the Pyong Yang set and the Tae Guk set... I know that the ATA/Sohngam people have their own set but I don't know if they're new or if they are an older set. You guys know of any others currently in use?

eXcessiveForce · 12-10-2005, 09:13 PM

ATA used chong-ji forms until 1984 when the songahm forms were created and released.

Check for a thread by spookey I think he compiled a very long list about a year ago.

Dan Gun · 12-10-2005, 09:47 PM

The koreans have their version of the pinan / heian katas... They are the "Pyong an". Anyone has heard about them??? I guess is mostly used by Tang Soo Do practitioners, but I train them in my Tae Kwon Do school since the main director of my dojang is a poomsae hardcore fan, and he have train a lot of different Korean martial arts.

So… let me see, as far a I know the WTF uses the Taeguk I – VIII, Koryo, Kumgang, Taeback, Pyongwon, Shipjin, Jitae, Chunkwon, Hansoo and Ilyeo.

ITF uses the 24 Tul.

And some other old or not affiliated schools (probably with roots in the Tang Soo Do) practices the Kuk Mu, Pyong An, Chul Gi, Pal Sek, and Kee Cho.

And of course Palgwe I – VIII. The base of Taeguk and Tul, in my opinion.

Spookey · 12-21-2005, 08:19 PM

Dear Sir,

Regarding your comment

Quote:

And of course Palgwe I – VIII. The base of Taeguk and Tul, in my opinion

The Chang Hon Hyungs (now called Tul by the ITF) were released in text more than 10 years prior to the creation of the Pal-Gwe poomse ~

TAEKWON!
SpooKey

Maxx · 12-22-2005, 02:05 AM

Probably close to 10 years ago, a friend of mine who did extensive training in Korea under the KTA (Korean Taekwondo Association) and the WTF was trained in bother pattern sets (Palgwe and Tae geuk). He mentioned that one of the primary differences between the two pattern sets is that the Tae Geuk patterns supposedly use shorter stances. The shorter stances, according to him, was that it more closely mimiced the type of stances and postures that one would use in freesparring and fighting.

I'm onlyh familiar with the Chang Hon Pattern set and have no experience with either the Palgwe or the Tae Geuk sets. Anyone have any comments on it? I've seen the Tae Geuk forms practiced and they do indeed seem to have much shorter stances when compared to older pattern sets.

12-09-2005, 04:56 PM	#1 (permalink)
Eric Daniel Registered User Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Moses Lake, WA Posts: 14	TKD forms Guys, I have heard that the forms practiced the way hee il cho teaches has some origin in Shotokan Karate forms. What do you think? __________________ "A student is not above his teacher, but everyone who is fully trained will be like his father" Luke 6:40

12-09-2005, 10:49 PM	#3 (permalink)
brokenelbow Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 520	You can tell the Chang Hon set is derived from the Shotokan heian kata. Generally I prefer the heian but I like a few of the Chang Hon when working out. I think Choi "broke" some of the techniques in heian when he re-arranged them, but he moved some good techniques up into them too. __________________ The crap that many schools do is not the crap I was taught or train in or teach. Damnit... it made sense when it was running through my head. DM

12-10-2005, 09:13 PM	#5 (permalink)
eXcessiveForce Excessive Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Missouri Posts: 2,663	ATA used chong-ji forms until 1984 when the songahm forms were created and released. Check for a thread by spookey I think he compiled a very long list about a year ago. __________________ eXcessiveFORCE. If you must use force, make it excessive.

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12-09-2005, 05:51 PM	#2 (permalink)
Maxx Registered User Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Redondo Beach, CA Posts: 280	The forms that Grandmaster Hee Il Cho teaches are known as the "Chang Hon" pattern set or sometimes called the Chon ji patterns. They are the pattern set used exclusively by the ITF though the way that the ITF and GM Hee Il Cho teach and practice them vary. There are 24 patterns in this pattern set that were originaly developed by General Choi Hong Hi. It is well known that General Choi studied Shotokan for some time and learned the Pinan/Heian pattern set during that time. While there are definite differences between the Chang Hon Pattern set and the Pinan forms, you can definitely see parallels between the two sets, especially in the lower ranked forms such as Dan Gun, Do San and Won Hyo. I only learned a few of the Pinan Patterns and that was over a decade ago and I was shocked at how close some of the patterns were to the Chang Hon set. I'm sure that some of the more advanced patterns in the Chang Hon set are most likely original creations though.

12-10-2005, 07:38 PM	#4 (permalink)
Maxx Registered User Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Redondo Beach, CA Posts: 280	Since we're on this topic, does anyone happen to know just how many different sets of TKD Forms there are? I know of the Chang Hon Pattern set, the Pyong Yang set and the Tae Guk set... I know that the ATA/Sohngam people have their own set but I don't know if they're new or if they are an older set. You guys know of any others currently in use?

12-10-2005, 09:47 PM	#6 (permalink)
Dan Gun Registered User Join Date: May 2005 Location: Costa Rica Posts: 15	The koreans have their version of the pinan / heian katas... They are the "Pyong an". Anyone has heard about them??? I guess is mostly used by Tang Soo Do practitioners, but I train them in my Tae Kwon Do school since the main director of my dojang is a poomsae hardcore fan, and he have train a lot of different Korean martial arts. So… let me see, as far a I know the WTF uses the Taeguk I – VIII, Koryo, Kumgang, Taeback, Pyongwon, Shipjin, Jitae, Chunkwon, Hansoo and Ilyeo. ITF uses the 24 Tul. And some other old or not affiliated schools (probably with roots in the Tang Soo Do) practices the Kuk Mu, Pyong An, Chul Gi, Pal Sek, and Kee Cho. And of course Palgwe I – VIII. The base of Taeguk and Tul, in my opinion.

12-22-2005, 02:05 AM	#8 (permalink)
Maxx Registered User Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Redondo Beach, CA Posts: 280	Probably close to 10 years ago, a friend of mine who did extensive training in Korea under the KTA (Korean Taekwondo Association) and the WTF was trained in bother pattern sets (Palgwe and Tae geuk). He mentioned that one of the primary differences between the two pattern sets is that the Tae Geuk patterns supposedly use shorter stances. The shorter stances, according to him, was that it more closely mimiced the type of stances and postures that one would use in freesparring and fighting. I'm onlyh familiar with the Chang Hon Pattern set and have no experience with either the Palgwe or the Tae Geuk sets. Anyone have any comments on it? I've seen the Tae Geuk forms practiced and they do indeed seem to have much shorter stances when compared to older pattern sets.

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