WildWest.

A lot of people will say to you "grades don't mean shit when it comes to fighting ability"

They are correct.

Although I can and do train without attaining grades in MT I used to earn grades in TKD and am currently earning grades in Hapkido. I have found that having the small goals to reach for at Hapkido have passed over into other areas of my life. By that I mean the discipline of setting and reaching targets as helped me prepare for other tests/exams etc in other apects of my life. If the coloured belt system teaches us nothing else, and it probably doesn't, at least it can help give you the discipline to become a better person (without getting all cuddly about it).

Or am I full of shit?

What do others think?

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"Too much weights, not enough speed work"

EmptyneSs

the benefits of the grading system are financial gain. not for you of course, but for whoever it is running the mcdojo you train at. belt tests are for mcdojos inmop.

GranFire

I am a perfectionist and tend not to start new things when I can't do them perfectly.

The gradual increase in demands through the grading system makes it easier for me to accomplish doable goals.

As for fighting abillity...

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WildWest.

Dude, are you saying my Hapkido club is a McDojo without even seeing it??

Our fees are very low US$70 for 3 months tuition and our grading fees (which admittedly does suck) are as low as US$10. The club is small too so we get plenty of instruction when training. Although really I don't need to explain myself because who cares?

This thread isn't about the negative aspects of the belt system, rather about the positive, personal things people get out of reaching small training goals, in this case, the belt system. We'll leave critisizing it to another thread where you'll probably find we have a lot in common.

However when I instruct in the future I won't be charging for belt tests....should I offer them.

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"Too much weights, not enough speed work"

EmptyneSs

as a martial artist, i really look down on grading systems, paying for belts, certificates, or any of that nonsense because thats not what its about, nor does it represent your skill. its just a distraction, if not outright for financial gain. your instructor should be cool enough with you to be able to hand you your belt free of charge when he feels you have earned it. but thats just my opinion.

WildWest.

I agree with you on this. Unfortunately our instructor doesn't grade us (he probably wouldnt charge us)....the 9th dan Grandmaster does. Being that he's a former special forces instructor, I quite enjoy having him there as he knows his shit.

But, like I said, I agree with you about this.

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"Too much weights, not enough speed work"

EmptyneSs

ive heard of some dojos charging as much as $100 for just a test

GranFire

Whatever it takes to motivate the students to work hard on their technique...

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*It's not the size of the dog in the fight - it's the size of the fight in the dog*

Dpendleton

I agree with this also, I know this might sound petty but I hate having to call a six year old or a pre-teen sir just because they have a blackbelt.

GranFire

If they have earned it...

I find myself calling a lot of kids *Sir* even outside the Dojang...I expect them to be polite, so I should be, too!

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Dpendleton

I am polite,but calling them sir and ma'am just because they are a black belt, maybe if they serve the country in the military first.

eXcessiveForce

Grading systems have many uses.

1. Some people require short term goals. Without them they do not feel they are making progress.

2. In large schools you may not be the only instructor and it helps to know what material you can expect out of the new face in class.

3. It helps to break up the classes so that people work on material appropriate for their ability.

4. It helps when students are helping other students by knowing where the student stands.


As for charging for tests, well, belts and certificates cost money, Good schools work off of a formula. The want X money per student. So no matter what I charge for what and the end of it I will get at least X.

So If tuition is A, Testing is B and Equipment is C

(Overhead+(X))=(A+B+C * # of students)

My overhead is 6K a month. So just overhead not including anything for myself means I have to have 60 people at 100 a month.

So if I charge $50 a month for tuition and $50 per testing every couple months, I still need to make $25 more just to cover overhead.


Charging is not a McDojo, it's economics.

Now if I need to make 40K a year to teach, and I need 6K a month overhead we are talking 72K +40K so that is 112K

112K no matter how many students you gotta be able to pay your bills or you don't teach.

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eXcessiveFORCE.

If you must use force, make it excessive.

WildWest.

This thread has gone a bit off topic. Rather than debate the merits or not of charging for gradings, I was trying to get people to tell me what positive things they get out of the grading system.

But while we're on the subject, money is a poor motivator for achievement. You should strive to be the best you can for your test for the simple reason that you want to be good and not to pay for the next grade.

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"Too much weights, not enough speed work"

GranFire

LOL! We seem to pay too much attentinon to the nay sayers...

eXessive force had about all point covered why ranking system/grading is a good idea.

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Maxx

Aside from the points that ExcessiveForce made, I feel that a solid grading system adds a sense of structure to the path of learning in a school and they make it more accessible to the average person.

Before I explain my point, I just want to say that I am a serious martial artist and like most serious people who live it, I've done things above and beyond what my instructors asked of me in class including full contact sparring, heavy conditioning and a variety of other things that I'll probably end up regretting as I get older. I say this not to brag... a lot of you have done the same things I have, but so you can understand my mindset.

When I started teaching martial arts in college, I believed that anyone who wanted the training had to become an athlete and push themselves to the limit every single time. The training was hard and the tests were brutal. I looked at what I had to offer as something to be passed from instructor to student as opposed to providing a skill for those who were paying for instruction. Because of this, I noticed that my classes would drop from a 40 to about 4 people within a few weeks.

I don't want to get too far off track, but most classes are not that intense anymore and few instructors can afford to chase off those who are "unworthy" of the training. Having a grading system, in my opinion, allows people of all ages and physical abilities to partake of training and allows an instructor to benefit a great deal more people that he would have before. I also think that it provides the instructor with a greater pool of potential students.

While toning down classes hasn't really been mentioned, I think it tends to go hand in hand with most schools out there that use grading systems in the way that is being addressed in this thread, but I also look at it like this... intense, hard training right from the get go intimidates people. Lighter training can leave some wanting more. You can always provide that to them. I think it had the potential to make everyone happy from the 70 year old senior citizen to the 35 year old taekwondo mom to the olympic tkd competitor right on thorugh to a potential kickboxer. It opens up the benefits of martial arts training to everyone and I think that the more people that train the better.