now u tell me, Differences With ITF and WTF

**ITFDespoja** · 09-18-2006, 10:36 AM

sorry but other orgs that are not itf or wtf. is not truly tkd mainly branches of the itf and the wtf.

im very interested to c what the ppl think of the Differences with the itf and wtf. these are the only tkd orgs i respect

so tell what makes them differant

**Maxx** · 09-18-2006, 09:00 PM

My background is with the ITF, but personally, I respect any school that teaches legitimate technique, skill development and promotes ethical behavior. Sadly, I've seen a lot of schools from both the ITF and WTF that don't fit that bill.

I don't think it really matters what organization you're talking about, be it the ITF, WTF, ATA, ITA, whatever. You're gonna find people of incredible skill in all of those organizations and you're gonna find and equal amount of crap.

**ITFDespoja** · 09-18-2006, 11:47 PM

WhAt itf group are u with.

**Maxx** · 09-19-2006, 02:21 PM

I haven't been active as an ITF member since before General Choi died, but originally I was a member of the USTF under Master Chuck Sereff. I am not familiar with the current state of ITF politics and have recently become more involved with AIMAA (Action International Martial Arts Association) under Grandmaste Hee Il Cho.

**eXcessiveForce** · 09-19-2006, 02:31 PM

Even though I disagree with them sometimes, I do prefer the fact that there are far less politics involved in the ATA.

**Fluffy** · 10-14-2006, 08:40 PM

Whaaaa.....?

The ATA may have less politics only because there is no debate allowed. I'm a former ATA 4th Degree under (then) Master Jack Pierce. He raised some objections to how things were being run, he was told to shut up or move on - he moved on. And so did I, under him. The ATA has great forms and one-steps, but the normal student has absolutely nothing to do with how things are run. Now, one can say that about any org...with the ATA you get punished for raising your voice. FYI my family still owns and runs an ATA school in N. Seattle.

As for the ITF vs. WTF, you can think of it this way: ITF - Traditional....WTF - sport. There are exceptions to that rule, but generally that's the way it is.

**dodgeduckdodge** · 10-23-2006, 03:08 AM

The differences in the ITF and the WTF? The WTF is nothing more than a tournament committee, it recognizes the Kukkiwon as the sole authority on all things Taekwondo.

The ITF's (3 of them now?) likes to claim they are not sports, however, they have had many of a so-called World Championship. I'd call those sporting events! Let's look at what the ITF likes to compete in at their so-called World Championships: Daeryun or sparring (Who are the current ITF World Champions?), Tuls or forms (I thought this was the so-called "Art" of Taekwon-Do and could not be a sport, yet ITF has so-called World Champions in the Tuls Division), and my favorite, Kyukpa or Breaking. Who are the 2006 breaking and forms champions in the ITF?

Maybe now we all begin to see the difference.

Alcohol

**ITFDespoja** · 10-23-2006, 08:05 AM

well i agree with u with that. who is the ITF world champion in sparrin breakin patterns and so on.. ive have to get back with u with that answer. Cous i can recall me subumin talkin about all the itf groups competin as 1. but as for a martial art. All ITF clubs emphasize more on as a martial art than the wtf. ive spoken to WTF blackbelts and trained with wtf clubs. so im not sayin the wtf is bad. cous i have huge respect for them.

**Piston** · 10-23-2006, 04:04 PM

Well Alchohol, are you saying that the Kukkiwon isn't sport-orientated because there's this international event that happens every 4 years and it contains all kinds of athletes from all over the world competing with each other, for titles, in different areas of sport, and funnily enough there's a form of TKD in there that the International Olympic Committee recognises and it certainly ain't ITF.

Sorry to be sarcastic but your posts bashing ITF just come across as a little authoritarian. Yes the ITF has organised competitive events but thats not the focus of ITF training. The competitions take second place to actual training, although they can be quite educatory. Also anyone wishing to progress beyond 1st dan has to have volunteered to assist in the organisation and running of these events, as it shows their wish to further the art in one form or another.

**dodgeduckdodge** · 10-23-2006, 09:25 PM

Originally Posted by ITFDespoja

well i agree with u with that. who is the ITF world champion in sparrin breakin patterns and so on.. ive have to get back with u with that answer. Cous i can recall me subumin talkin about all the itf groups competin as 1. but as for a martial art. All ITF clubs emphasize more on as a martial art than the wtf. ive spoken to WTF blackbelts and trained with wtf clubs. so im not sayin the wtf is bad. cous i have huge respect for them.

It is first important to understand that their is no such thing as a WTF Black Belt, or a WTF club. WTF does not issue Black Belts, nor does it sanction clubs. Individuals, clubs, and instructors can not be members of the WTF.

You may have experienced schools that have a focus on training students for WTF affilicated competitions. Those schools tend to focus a lot on competition preparation. However, competition is not the focus of the majority of Taekwondo schools who have affiliation to the Kukkiwon.

The majority of Taekwondo schools, world wide, affiliated with Kukkiwon focus on Taekwondo curriculum where the scope and sequence of the lesson plans do not have competition as a goal.

Alcohol

**dodgeduckdodge** · 10-23-2006, 09:44 PM

Originally Posted by Piston

Well Alchohol, are you saying that the Kukkiwon isn't sport-orientated because there's this international event that happens every 4 years and it contains all kinds of athletes from all over the world competing with each other, for titles, in different areas of sport, and funnily enough there's a form of TKD in there that the International Olympic Committee recognises and it certainly ain't ITF.

<<<<<

Piston, yes, the Kukkiwon today has nothing to do with A) The World Taekwondo Championships, or B) The Olympics. The Kukkiwon is a martial arts Academy, also known as a Dojang. As a matter of fact, it's original name was the "Choong Ahn Dojang". People actualy go to the Kukkiwon to train and learn the complete curriculum of Taekwondo. Those who attend the over 40 hour instructor course there will only spend less than 5% or about 2 hours going over competition issues.

Piston: >>>>>Sorry to be sarcastic but your posts bashing ITF just come across as a little authoritarian.<<<<<<

I fail to see where I bashed the ITF. I simply stated facts. If you dispute these facts, please, provide us with the basis of your dispute, we can discuss them.

Piston: >>>>Yes the ITF has organised competitive events but thats not the focus of ITF training. The competitions take second place to actual training, although they can be quite educatory.<<<<<

Actually, the ITF organized sporting competitions every year of it's existance, and now all 3 ITF's still do. But I agree that it is not the main focus of the ITF, nor is it the focus of the Kukkiwon. However, competition is the only focus of the WTF, as the WTF is nothing but a well run tournament committee.

Can we see that there are 3 different groups here? ITF, Kukkiwon and the WTF?

Piston: >>>>>>Also anyone wishing to progress beyond 1st dan has to have volunteered to assist in the organisation and running of these events, as it shows their wish to further the art in one form or another.<<<

No such requirement exist for those affiliated with Kukkiwon. The majority of Kukkiwon affiliated practitioners earn the Dan based on curriculum while very few,and only the highly elite competitors, get any special consideration in Dan promotion for their involvement in competition.

Alcohol

(sorry I messed up the post order, I have to get use to this)

**Piston** · 10-24-2006, 04:20 AM

Ah my mistake, it sounded to me like the WTF was a branch of the Kukkiwon, probably read something wrong somehwere. But does this mean that the Kukkiwon teaches the style shown in WTF organised tournaments?

**Piston** · 10-24-2006, 04:22 AM

Originally Posted by dodgeduckdodge

<<<<<

No such requirement exist for those affiliated with Kukkiwon. The majority of Kukkiwon affiliated practitioners earn the Dan based on curriculum while very few,and only the highly elite competitors, get any special consideration in Dan promotion for their involvement in competition.

Well the curriculum is also a requirement, the main one I might add, you cannot simply obtain a higher dan through volunteering.

**ITFDespoja** · 10-24-2006, 10:48 AM

look at the end of the day we have differant org and defferant patterns defferant ppl running the show and so on... there is nathing that they do is not new to me.. such as kicks arials what eva.. if my subumnim seen a new technique we can analyse it and pick it up very QUICK. Vice VERSER . i love all kicks. and i practise all the same kicks as the wtf. cous i train together with talented WTF talented students. the only they dont emphasize is the power. ITF concentrates alot on the sine wave. But as i said we learn from each other.thats i why i made a pervoius thread sayin ITF and WTF should be 1. Cous its a shame its not as 1. Too many fucken Egos out there and offcourse MONEY! we are not defferant all!! like i said its just Taekwondo. i yous too think that i have an edge over WTF students cous ITF is more Hardcore than WTF. But ive meet alot of Wtf students and they have changed the way i think about things. cant just be a lil fish in a small pond. they do things we dont do. and so on. so why not learn them!. And as i said both parties and pick it up very quick. Its just taekwondo.

**dodgeduckdodge** · 10-24-2006, 10:22 PM

Originally Posted by Piston

Ah my mistake, it sounded to me like the WTF was a branch of the Kukkiwon, probably read something wrong somehwere. But does this mean that the Kukkiwon teaches the style shown in WTF organised tournaments?

It would be a mistake to think that the Kukkiwon was branch of the WTF.

Kukkiwon is the World Taekwondo Headquarters of Taekwondo. What that means it that is it the main academy, the main Dojang or training hall. That is it.

In contrast, the WTF is composed of 182 National Associations around the world that hold their National Championships and select a team to compete in international WTF events, including the Olympics.

Kukkiwon = Academy for study

WTF = Tournament committee

As for recognition of Taekwondo, the WTF only recognizes the unified system of Kukkiwon. There are many small PRIVATE organizations that serve as a financial means of support for it's President, like any corporation, however, becoming a part of the WTF in their nation would require a loss of that financial income for the private organizations owners. Those private organizations can teach whatever they like, but they will never be recognized by the main stream of Taekwondo.

Alcohol