combining organizational forms

wsdddoa012 · 08-04-2007, 11:44 PM

Has the mixing of both ITF and WTF forms every taken place? would the ITF or WTF allow a tkd instructor to mix forms from both organizations?

GranFire · 08-05-2007, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wsdddoa012

Has the mixing of both ITF and WTF forms every taken place? would the ITF or WTF allow a tkd instructor to mix forms from both organizations?

GAWD....are you ever asking for it...

(Being caught in the changes of our organization...I can't imagine the PITA a merger would be)

wsdddoa012 · 08-05-2007, 05:28 PM

So in other words that bad huh?

dodgeduckdodge · 08-06-2007, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wsdddoa012

Has the mixing of both ITF and WTF forms every taken place? would the ITF or WTF allow a tkd instructor to mix forms from both organizations?

The WTF selects which forms will be used for the WTF World Poomsae Championships. Currently they chose only the forms of the Kukkiwon.

However, as you read this, the WTF is reviewing the possibility of accepting the ITF forms as an additional event in this event.

If you are asking if the ITF forms and the Kukkiwon forms would ever be mixed together? No.

Something you have to know. During the 1960's and the early 1970's, the ITF was involved in creating the Kukkiwon forms, the ones currently used by the WTF.

Alcohol

GranFire · 08-06-2007, 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wsdddoa012

So in other words that bad huh?

I am nowhere near those orgs... but it can't be good! Till everybody had their say-so (not to mention egos!) It all comes out in the wash though...

wsdddoa012 · 08-06-2007, 01:49 PM

OK hypothetical.... What would happen if someone did decide to teach both ITF and WTF forms in the same cirriculum?.. Seeing how they dont like mixing up things.

And yes I did know that dodgeduckdodge..

JStinson · 08-06-2007, 08:36 PM

If one chose to teach the WTF and ITF forms, I would say there would be alot of confused students. Too many forms!! I have done both and would say they are enough different that I would not try to learn them at the same time. When I taught TKD, I could never get people to do one form right per level let alone two of them.

dodgeduckdodge · 08-06-2007, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wsdddoa012

OK hypothetical.... What would happen if someone did decide to teach both ITF and WTF forms in the same cirriculum?.. Seeing how they dont like mixing up things.

And yes I did know that dodgeduckdodge..

You know? Why do you still continue to call it as "WTF forms" when there is no such thing?

Actually there are a number of school in the USA that teach a mix of the ITF hyungs/tuls and the Kukkiwon Poomsae (palgwe & taegeuk and related dan).

I find it extremely odd, unless that Sabum is from Oh Do Kwan roots. Then, it can be said the Sabum still teachers their old kwan forms.

I know of instructors who teach ITF forms along with Kukkiwon Poomsae and claim that the ITF are "traditional". This is complete ignorance.

My opinion on instructors teaching Palgwe Poomsae is not much better.

Alcohol

wsdddoa012 · 08-07-2007, 02:25 PM

Well better I guess to just make up a few katas instead of combining two different sets... hmmmm

JStinson · 08-07-2007, 04:02 PM

I guess some people call them the "WTF forms" just as people call them ITF forms. They associate the forms with a particular group of people. They are not "ITF forms", they are called Chang Han forms.

wsdddoa012 · 08-07-2007, 10:02 PM

JStinson,

so would any of the korean martial arts organizations or federations act on someone combining different organizational forms? or let's say for that matter coming up with there own idea and using tae kwon do as a backbone for that idea?

JStinson · 08-07-2007, 10:53 PM

First of all you have to know what you want out of the organization/federation. If it is a "legit" organization they want certain standards. Some will say they want everything done a certain way, others will sway a little. I have seen schools teach Taegeuk, Chang Han and Palgue forms, way too much in my opinion. Even in the black belt levels of the "ITF" forms there are multiple forms.

My question is why reinvent the wheel? Choose the pattern set that complements you and study the patterns to see what they are all about. Believe it or not, there is a lifetime of information in a form let alone a set. But one the same hand, the Chang Han are just a reinvention of Shotokan forms and the "WTF" patterns are just interpretations of the Chang Han set. So people are reinventing all the time.

Guess it all comes down to this, what is it that you want out of forms????

GranFire · 08-08-2007, 12:04 AM

I hate to tell you that, but (going through major changes in my organization, including forms) what it all boils down to is what the Big Wigs on top think. It's Egos and politics.

Having to learn multiple forms at the same time is a feat! I know because I had to relearn 7 in for month. Frankly, while there is a reason for the forms to be like they are - in some way....the fact that there are umpteen organizations, each with their own variation of forms, ought to give you food for thought.

One can, of course practice all forms for the sake of tradition...I for one am glad if I keep up with current events.

dodgeduckdodge · 08-08-2007, 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JStinson

First of all you have to know what you want out of the organization/federation. If it is a "legit" organization they want certain standards. Some will say they want everything done a certain way, others will sway a little. I have seen schools teach Taegeuk, Chang Han and Palgue forms, way too much in my opinion. Even in the black belt levels of the "ITF" forms there are multiple forms.

My question is why reinvent the wheel? Choose the pattern set that complements you and study the patterns to see what they are all about. Believe it or not, there is a lifetime of information in a form let alone a set. But one the same hand, the Chang Han are just a reinvention of Shotokan forms and the "WTF" patterns are just interpretations of the Chang Han set. So people are reinventing all the time.

Guess it all comes down to this, what is it that you want out of forms????

Why would you say that so-called WTF forms are just recreations of the ITF forms?

Alcohol

JStinson · 08-08-2007, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GranFire

I hate to tell you that, but (going through major changes in my organization, including forms) what it all boils down to is what the Big Wigs on top think. It's Egos and politics.

Having to learn multiple forms at the same time is a feat! I know because I had to relearn 7 in for month. Frankly, while there is a reason for the forms to be like they are - in some way....the fact that there are umpteen organizations, each with their own variation of forms, ought to give you food for thought.

One can, of course practice all forms for the sake of tradition...I for one am glad if I keep up with current events.

Relearning 7 forms is not the same as learning new forms, although it is a big task. If you want to practice forms in a traditional sense, you would learn 1, maybe 2 forms at the most and learn what the forms are used for.

08-04-2007, 11:44 PM	#1 (permalink)
wsdddoa012 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 88	combining organizational forms Has the mixing of both ITF and WTF forms every taken place? would the ITF or WTF allow a tkd instructor to mix forms from both organizations? __________________ Mike Senior Chief Instructor

08-05-2007, 05:28 PM	#3 (permalink)
wsdddoa012 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 88	response So in other words that bad huh? __________________ Mike Senior Chief Instructor

08-06-2007, 01:49 PM	#6 (permalink)
wsdddoa012 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 88	response OK hypothetical.... What would happen if someone did decide to teach both ITF and WTF forms in the same cirriculum?.. Seeing how they dont like mixing up things. And yes I did know that dodgeduckdodge.. __________________ Mike Senior Chief Instructor

08-06-2007, 08:36 PM	#7 (permalink)
JStinson Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 30	If one chose to teach the WTF and ITF forms, I would say there would be alot of confused students. Too many forms!! I have done both and would say they are enough different that I would not try to learn them at the same time. When I taught TKD, I could never get people to do one form right per level let alone two of them. __________________ J Stinson Stinson's Korean Martial Arts Academy Glasgow, KY

08-07-2007, 02:25 PM	#9 (permalink)
wsdddoa012 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 88	response Well better I guess to just make up a few katas instead of combining two different sets... hmmmm __________________ Mike Senior Chief Instructor

08-07-2007, 04:02 PM	#10 (permalink)
JStinson Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 30	I guess some people call them the "WTF forms" just as people call them ITF forms. They associate the forms with a particular group of people. They are not "ITF forms", they are called Chang Han forms. __________________ J Stinson Stinson's Korean Martial Arts Academy Glasgow, KY

08-07-2007, 10:02 PM	#11 (permalink)
wsdddoa012 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 88	response JStinson, so would any of the korean martial arts organizations or federations act on someone combining different organizational forms? or let's say for that matter coming up with there own idea and using tae kwon do as a backbone for that idea? __________________ Mike Senior Chief Instructor

08-07-2007, 10:53 PM	#12 (permalink)
JStinson Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 30	First of all you have to know what you want out of the organization/federation. If it is a "legit" organization they want certain standards. Some will say they want everything done a certain way, others will sway a little. I have seen schools teach Taegeuk, Chang Han and Palgue forms, way too much in my opinion. Even in the black belt levels of the "ITF" forms there are multiple forms. My question is why reinvent the wheel? Choose the pattern set that complements you and study the patterns to see what they are all about. Believe it or not, there is a lifetime of information in a form let alone a set. But one the same hand, the Chang Han are just a reinvention of Shotokan forms and the "WTF" patterns are just interpretations of the Chang Han set. So people are reinventing all the time. Guess it all comes down to this, what is it that you want out of forms???? __________________ J Stinson Stinson's Korean Martial Arts Academy Glasgow, KY

08-08-2007, 12:04 AM	#13 (permalink)
GranFire Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: South East Posts: 586	I hate to tell you that, but (going through major changes in my organization, including forms) what it all boils down to is what the Big Wigs on top think. It's Egos and politics. Having to learn multiple forms at the same time is a feat! I know because I had to relearn 7 in for month. Frankly, while there is a reason for the forms to be like they are - in some way....the fact that there are umpteen organizations, each with their own variation of forms, ought to give you food for thought. One can, of course practice all forms for the sake of tradition...I for one am glad if I keep up with current events. __________________ Banner by www.fiveancestors.com http://itatigerforum.proboards103.com/ It's not the size of the dog in the fight - it's the size of the fight in the dog

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