Empty hand knife defense - Page 3

darrianation · 09-28-2007, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hardball

It worked!!!!

At the end of the day that is all that really matters isn't it?

Sometimes we win by skill and cunning other times it is by luck and gut reaction.

eXcessiveForce · 09-28-2007, 02:34 PM

Now if it's the front yard, I would try to retreat into the house and grab the shotgun

**Hardball** · 09-28-2007, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eXcessiveForce

Then I'd rather punch in the throat a lot.

Ridge hand, phoneix knuckle or fist?

eXcessiveForce · 09-28-2007, 02:51 PM

what ever I can get there to crush his windpipe

**Hardball** · 09-28-2007, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eXcessiveForce

what ever I can get there to crush his windpipe

Nasty thoughts!!!!!

eXcessiveForce · 09-28-2007, 02:59 PM

not many things say end of story better than a your attacker drowning in their own blood

Tom Yum · 09-28-2007, 03:02 PM

There was one move, where the defender got his opponent in a standing arm bar and tried to step over the arm and chicken wing it....what if that opponent slid his arm down, say while falling....knife to tha groin...ouch.

I posted the video to see what people's thoughts would be.

Tom Yum · 09-28-2007, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darrianation

I hate critiquing a video because it seems everyone gets mad at me so Tom please don’t think this is a personal attack because it’s not.

I often wonder where these knife defenses come from and if folks actually attempt these things in live FonF.

Blocking the highline as shown many times in this video leaves you open for the knife coming in under the armpit if you guess wrong and I’ve seen a lot folks guess wrong during FonF fighting (force on force) as well as in the real world. Of course this is bad because the knife may likely penetrate the lung and the heart. The armpit area is favorite target for prison shankings (so is the neck). Also, many experienced knifers ala “prison style” will sewing machine their victims which many defenses you see in many martial arts including this video will not work against it, at least not well and could even put the user at greater risk.

And catching wrists in midair against someone using real world sewing machine energy is nearly impossible. These defenses are easy to pull off using demonstration energy where both the attacker and defender are on the same page and work together and less easy but still doable when you know the attack but not so easy against a “real world attack” where you don’t know what the other guy is going to do or if he even has a knife. Remember some 85% of knife victims don’t even see the knife until after they are stabbed and around 60% don’t even know they have been stabbed until the fight is over thinking they were being punched. *Data taken from Darren Lauer studies and independently verified by my own observations as a paramedic in places like Baltimore (Shock Trauma) and Washing DC as well as working in other dangerous places around the world.

Any defense has to consider a “catch-all” type approach for when you don’t know if he is armed or not (you haven’t seen empty hands before the strike). The movement pattern needs to account equally for a punch or knife coming on the high line, midline, or low line and for increased stress levels and body alarm (fine motor techniques are very difficult to pull off in this situation).

The best defenses I have experimented with are usually fairly plain and ordinary looking….anticlimactic really.

I'm glad you responded, Darrianation. Good to hear from someone from the field doing it.

**Hardball** · 09-28-2007, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eXcessiveForce

not many things say end of story better than a your attacker drowning in their own blood

Naaasssty!!!!!

darrianation · 09-28-2007, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eXcessiveForce

why did you get out of the SUV though

Good question.

This was one of those situations where everything got fucked up from the Intel, to the routes we chose, to the time of day…but most of that was dictated to us by our charges (clients).

Anytime you leave the compound it is inherently dangerous but that is the way it is.

Anyway, we were able to avoid several jams that day but before we got to our destination we ended up getting stuck in traffic. We couldn’t go forward or backward nor to the left or right. We needed to clear vehicles from our path and honking and ramming the vehicle in front of us wasn’t working.

The crowd began to close in and this is not a good situation at all this is the typical scenario for getting hit with a RPG or grenade tossed under the car. There is no way I want to be sitting there in the car when some hadji shoots an RPG at me. I would rather get out and fight if we cannot accelerate out of the area safely. If you stay in the car you die.

But that was only part of the problem the other part was we were the lead car in a small convoy protecting valuable “human cargo”. We needed to clear the crowd from around that vehicle and the only way to do that under the circumstances (which were shit-poor) was to get out of the vehicle and drive the crowd back by force if necessary…there wasn’t another way.

Enter hajji jumping up on the hood of my vehicle and the situation continued to spiral south from there.

darrianation · 09-28-2007, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eXcessiveForce

Then I'd rather punch in the throat a lot.

I'm assuming you are doing something to manage that knife ae well....

I like trachial destructions myself, a favorite target of mine as well.

eXcessiveForce · 09-28-2007, 03:24 PM

I take it there weren't any strykers available for your convoy

eXcessiveForce · 09-28-2007, 03:26 PM

yeah that was a follow up to if I had control enough of the wrist to do a wrist lock. I'd rather be hitting than trying to lock a wrist with that kind of adrenaline

darrianation · 09-28-2007, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eXcessiveForce

yeah that was a follow up to if I had control enough of the wrist to do a wrist lock. I'd rather be hitting than trying to lock a wrist with that kind of adrenaline

Gotcha.

Disarms through blunt force trauama is the better way to go in my oppinion.

darrianation · 09-28-2007, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eXcessiveForce

I take it there weren't any strykers available for your convoy

Back up? That's a good one.

Back up didn't excist.

09-28-2007, 02:34 PM	#32 (permalink)
eXcessiveForce Excessive Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Missouri Posts: 2,688	Now if it's the front yard, I would try to retreat into the house and grab the shotgun __________________ eXcessiveFORCE. If you must use force, make it excessive.

09-28-2007, 02:51 PM	#34 (permalink)
eXcessiveForce Excessive Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Missouri Posts: 2,688	what ever I can get there to crush his windpipe __________________ eXcessiveFORCE. If you must use force, make it excessive.

09-28-2007, 02:59 PM	#36 (permalink)
eXcessiveForce Excessive Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Missouri Posts: 2,688	not many things say end of story better than a your attacker drowning in their own blood __________________ eXcessiveFORCE. If you must use force, make it excessive.

09-28-2007, 03:02 PM	#37 (permalink)
Tom Yum Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Here and there. Posts: 11,192	There was one move, where the defender got his opponent in a standing arm bar and tried to step over the arm and chicken wing it....what if that opponent slid his arm down, say while falling....knife to tha groin...ouch. I posted the video to see what people's thoughts would be. __________________ The more I learn, the more I realize how little I know. Slow is fast; fast is slow. Love it, leave it or fix it. Last edited by Tom Yum; 09-28-2007 at 03:35 PM.

09-28-2007, 03:24 PM	#42 (permalink)
eXcessiveForce Excessive Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Missouri Posts: 2,688	I take it there weren't any strykers available for your convoy __________________ eXcessiveFORCE. If you must use force, make it excessive.

09-28-2007, 03:26 PM	#43 (permalink)
eXcessiveForce Excessive Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Missouri Posts: 2,688	yeah that was a follow up to if I had control enough of the wrist to do a wrist lock. I'd rather be hitting than trying to lock a wrist with that kind of adrenaline __________________ eXcessiveFORCE. If you must use force, make it excessive.

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