TKD flaws....

Huntley · 03-29-2008, 11:53 PM

If you was the founding father of TKD and you looked down from the heaven and see how TKD is today and had the power from GOD, what would you do to those that have changed your Art and how would you correct it?

I would add more Hapkido and Groundfighting.

Mike Brewer · 03-30-2008, 10:50 AM

Less concern overall with being a babysitter's club. That goes for nearly every martial arts school, and is not aimed at TKD in particular. The function of martial arts fell apart when dojos, dojangs, and gyms became after-school programs instead of slef-protection methods. They still serve a valid function as such, but I would like to see martial arts become martial arts again.

Let the kids join the scouts. It does a far better job of making them better people than martial arts can.

eXcessiveForce · 03-31-2008, 11:03 AM

the flaws,

Under training hand work,

Over Training advanced low percentage kicks.

Restricted target areas in sparring at blackbelt level.

Lowering of standards over the last 30 years.

Over emphasis on trivial nonsense and politics over effectiveness and reality

Mike Brewer · 03-31-2008, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Lowering of standards over the last 30 years.

Over emphasis on trivial nonsense and politics over effectiveness and reality

And the Grand Prize winner is.....eXcessiveForce!!

This is the disease of all martial arts - not just TKD.

Maxx · 04-04-2008, 12:48 PM

Overall, I don't see a great deal of flaws with TKD as a martial art either as a systematized style or in the way that it is practiced. TKD has the reputation that it does due to it being the most widely practiced martial art in the world. And there are problems with it, to be sure, but what it has done is exposed martial arts training to more people than at any other time in the past. And while there are definite issues with the way it is practiced and taught from a fighter's perspective, we must remember that not everyone that trains TKD wants to be a fighter. Some just want some exercise, some want a way of releasing stress after a hard day on the job. Some want to be able to compete in a combative sport and still be able to go back to work on monday morning.

Personally, I would not practice in a school that over emphasized forms practice, sport style sparring or unrealistic self defense techniques. But all of these elements reach a much wider number of people than simple combative training would. And those people who start in a school like that who want more from their training will seek out those who can give them what they want.

npk9 · 04-08-2008, 12:44 PM

Self esteem, confidence, respect, concentration they should all be byproducts of practicing the arts - not longterm abstract goals aka marketing gimmicks. . . .

Maxx · 04-09-2008, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by npk9

Self esteem, confidence, respect, concentration they should all be byproducts of practicing the arts - not longterm abstract goals aka marketing gimmicks. . . .

That would depend on the goals of the student. As long as the experience is positive for the student then I consider that a success. Not everyone wants to be a fighter but martial arts can offer various benefits to a wide range of people. Those that choose to pursue a more combat oriented training modality can certainly find it, while the other students can continue to practice those elements of the martial arts which attract them.

Overall it leads to greater exposure for the martial arts, TKD in particular. It also means the instructor will receive greater exposure in his comunitee and will draw in more students and potentially find a larger number of individuals who do want the harder training.

dogman1979 · 05-01-2008, 03:17 PM

I agree that not everyone wants to be a fighter. I was reading another forum and someone suggested the idea of a different belt system for fighters and non fighters. That way, people who just wanted to workout and have fun in TKD with their family could advance on a different belt system with no black belt and the people who really wanted to spar and learn to fight wouldnt be compared to them. I think its a great idea that could help solve a lot of the problems with TKD mcdojos.

bodhisattva · 05-02-2008, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dogman1979

I agree that not everyone wants to be a fighter. I was reading another forum and someone suggested the idea of a different belt system for fighters and non fighters. That way, people who just wanted to workout and have fun in TKD with their family could advance on a different belt system with no black belt and the people who really wanted to spar and learn to fight wouldnt be compared to them. I think its a great idea that could help solve a lot of the problems with TKD mcdojos.

I can't understand why someone would choose to do a martial art that "isn't for fighters."

It is a MARTIAL art.

I am always blown away by this...

dogman1979 · 05-02-2008, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bodhisattva

I can't understand why someone would choose to do a martial art that "isn't for fighters."

It is a MARTIAL art.

I am always blown away by this...

I think a lot of schools, especially the mcdojos make all of their money from people who do not want to learn to fight...or maybe they want to learn to fight but they do not want to actually practice by sparring per se.

(when I say spar, I dont mean point sparring. I mean full contact with grabs, takedowns, chokes, grappling, and striking - MMA style sparring)

I think that is one of the reasons TKD gets such a bad rep. A majority of the people in the sport and Black Belts have never taken a punch to the face. They dont know how to fight. How can they be expected to actually defend themselves if they have never practiced to fight? Thats why the average TKD BB would get destroyed in a fight by a MT, BJJ, or MMA guy. An example of this would be learning the breast stroke on land, and throwing someone in the ocean and expect them to be able to swim. its too bad to because its is and has destroyed the reputation of TKD

bodhisattva · 05-02-2008, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxx

Overall, I don't see a great deal of flaws with TKD as a martial art either as a systematized style or in the way that it is practiced. TKD has the reputation that it does due to it being the most widely practiced martial art in the world. And there are problems with it, to be sure, but what it has done is exposed martial arts training to more people than at any other time in the past.

What good is it doing if it is exposing people to martial arts training that will get them beat up?

Punching from the hip
Initiating attacks with the feet
Initiating attacks with the rear hand
Blocking out in front of the body with the arms extended
Using the arms/hands to defend the groin
Deep and wide stances
Footwork that doesn'twork
No punching to the face
Depending primarily on kicks
Massive emphasis on worthless Kata
Sparring rules that make people WORSE fighters, not better fighters
No groundfighting
Few (if any) throws
Standing joint locks
"Weird" methods of attack that no one really even undersatnds or utilizes (the Psuedo or whatever it was called is a good example)
"Snap" kicks
Almost TOTAL LACK OF EVASIVE techniques
Flat-footed stances

god, and that's the short list! It is BACKWARDS and SCREWED UP and no amount of "Your way is good, My way is also good" mentality will change that.

I think TKD is one of the most fraudulent industries in the country, next to Fast Food (because they don't actually sell food) and Insurance (the world's biggest, most f'd up racket ever..)

TKD isn't even a good choice for fitness reasons - ANY good cardio/weights program would outdo TKD by a long shot in that arena.

And I think people in "kickbox aerobics" classes get better fighting information, and believe me, most of those classes are horrible.

--

People can say I'm flaming the art, but this is what I really believe. And for good reason. I gave TKD instructors my money, and in the end, they lied to me.

They basically sold me a revolver full of rust, and told me it would help me protect myself.

When in truth, if anyone fires that revolver, they are more than likely to get metal shrapnel in their own face when the damned thing blows up in their hand.

bodhisattva · 05-02-2008, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dogman1979

I think a lot of schools, especially the mcdojos make all of their money from people who do not want to learn to fight...or maybe they want to learn to fight but they do not want to actually practice by sparring per se.

(when I say spar, I dont mean point sparring. I mean full contact with grabs, takedowns, chokes, grappling, and striking - MMA style sparring)

I think that is one of the reasons TKD gets such a bad rep. A majority of the people in the sport and Black Belts have never taken a punch to the face. They dont know how to fight. How can they be expected to actually defend themselves if they have never practiced to fight? Thats why the average TKD BB would get destroyed in a fight by a MT, BJJ, or MMA guy. An example of this would be learning the breast stroke on land, and throwing someone in the ocean and expect them to be able to swim. its too bad to because its is and has destroyed the reputation of TKD

Anyone can practice MMA style sparring safely and effectively.

A martial arts school should be EDUCATING these people about that fact. If they come in to the school thinking "Well, I don't want to get hurt, so I don't want to spar" then the teacher should DO HIS JOB and TEACH the guy that he doesn't need to get hurt while sparring.

--

The average TKD blackbelt needn't go look for a muay thai, bjj, or MMA guy to have his ass handed to him in a blanket. The average TKD black belt can't even take on the local rugby hero.

--

Even if people DO practice fighting in their TKD classes, they still don't get better at fighting. Why? Because the practices are all backwards.

If I teach you to do a jump shot in basket ball with your ankles crossed - you won't get much better at your jump shot whether you actually PLAY GAMES against other teams OR NOT.

Because the method I showed you was all jacked-up.

So whether a TKD guy fights, or not, doesn't much matter. If his hand is on his hip when he throws a punch - he's getting knocked-the-f-out.

If he defends his groin with his hands, he's getting knocked out.

If he stands in a wide stance, I'm sweeping him, throwing him, or simply knocking him out.

If he shouts "Kiai!" when he punches me..well..he might win then - because I'll start laughing and he actually might land one of those silly reverse punches on me..but ONLY if he makes me start laughing.

It's just fradulent. It is a game (and a fun one) but NOT a martial art.

dogman1979 · 05-02-2008, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bodhisattva

Anyone can practice MMA style sparring safely and effectively.

A martial arts school should be EDUCATING these people about that fact. If they come in to the school thinking "Well, I don't want to get hurt, so I don't want to spar" then the teacher should DO HIS JOB and TEACH the guy that he doesn't need to get hurt while sparring.

--

The average TKD blackbelt needn't go look for a muay thai, bjj, or MMA guy to have his ass handed to him in a blanket. The average TKD black belt can't even take on the local rugby hero.

--

Even if people DO practice fighting in their TKD classes, they still don't get better at fighting. Why? Because the practices are all backwards.

If I teach you to do a jump shot in basket ball with your ankles crossed - you won't get much better at your jump shot whether you actually PLAY GAMES against other teams OR NOT.

Because the method I showed you was all jacked-up.

So whether a TKD guy fights, or not, doesn't much matter. If his hand is on his hip when he throws a punch - he's getting knocked-the-f-out.

If he defends his groin with his hands, he's getting knocked out.

If he stands in a wide stance, I'm sweeping him, throwing him, or simply knocking him out.

If he shouts "Kiai!" when he punches me..well..he might win then - because I'll start laughing and he actually might land one of those silly reverse punches on me..but ONLY if he makes me start laughing.

It's just fradulent. It is a game (and a fun one) but NOT a martial art.

I basically agree with everything you are saying.

Liberty · 05-07-2008, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Brewer

Less concern overall with being a babysitter's club. That goes for nearly every martial arts school, and is not aimed at TKD in particular. The function of martial arts fell apart when dojos, dojangs, and gyms became after-school programs instead of slef-protection methods. They still serve a valid function as such, but I would like to see martial arts become martial arts again.

Let the kids join the scouts. It does a far better job of making them better people than martial arts can.

I don't know about that one - older men leading young boys into the woods - questionable practice these days.

Somehow, little Tommy is better off in a class with other liitle tykes, where mommy knows where he's at, they are all learning a little self-discipline, self-defense, and self-respect, and the garlic breath leading the class already has that as a strike against his ever hoping to possibly sweet talk any of them into some sort of extra-curricular belt "exam" - that, I think "God" would approve!

Go Korean "Karate!"

Liberty · 05-08-2008, 12:15 AM

Shit - so much for that theory! Dammit!

YouTube Video

03-29-2008, 11:53 PM	#1 (permalink)
Huntley Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Snohomish, WA USA Posts: 51	TKD flaws.... If you was the founding father of TKD and you looked down from the heaven and see how TKD is today and had the power from GOD, what would you do to those that have changed your Art and how would you correct it? I would add more Hapkido and Groundfighting. __________________ Master Adam D. Huntley Snohomish Taekwondo www.SnoTKD.com Hwa-Rang Taekwondo www.HTFtaekwondo.com Member BHMA - Brotherhood of Martial Artists www.brotherhoodofmartialartists.com

03-31-2008, 11:03 AM	#3 (permalink)
eXcessiveForce Excessive Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Missouri Posts: 2,577	the flaws, Under training hand work, Over Training advanced low percentage kicks. Restricted target areas in sparring at blackbelt level. Lowering of standards over the last 30 years. Over emphasis on trivial nonsense and politics over effectiveness and reality __________________ eXcessiveFORCE. If you must use force, make it excessive.

04-08-2008, 12:44 PM	#6 (permalink)
npk9 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: PA Posts: 146	Self esteem, confidence, respect, concentration they should all be byproducts of practicing the arts - not longterm abstract goals aka marketing gimmicks. . . . __________________ I like to full-contact fight - do you?? If want a challenge - PM - we'll set something up! Seriously

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03-30-2008, 10:50 AM	#2 (permalink)
Mike Brewer Moderate Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 8,021	Less concern overall with being a babysitter's club. That goes for nearly every martial arts school, and is not aimed at TKD in particular. The function of martial arts fell apart when dojos, dojangs, and gyms became after-school programs instead of slef-protection methods. They still serve a valid function as such, but I would like to see martial arts become martial arts again. Let the kids join the scouts. It does a far better job of making them better people than martial arts can.

04-04-2008, 12:48 PM	#5 (permalink)
Maxx Registered User Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Redondo Beach, CA Posts: 278	Overall, I don't see a great deal of flaws with TKD as a martial art either as a systematized style or in the way that it is practiced. TKD has the reputation that it does due to it being the most widely practiced martial art in the world. And there are problems with it, to be sure, but what it has done is exposed martial arts training to more people than at any other time in the past. And while there are definite issues with the way it is practiced and taught from a fighter's perspective, we must remember that not everyone that trains TKD wants to be a fighter. Some just want some exercise, some want a way of releasing stress after a hard day on the job. Some want to be able to compete in a combative sport and still be able to go back to work on monday morning. Personally, I would not practice in a school that over emphasized forms practice, sport style sparring or unrealistic self defense techniques. But all of these elements reach a much wider number of people than simple combative training would. And those people who start in a school like that who want more from their training will seek out those who can give them what they want.

05-01-2008, 03:17 PM	#8 (permalink)
dogman1979 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 6	I agree that not everyone wants to be a fighter. I was reading another forum and someone suggested the idea of a different belt system for fighters and non fighters. That way, people who just wanted to workout and have fun in TKD with their family could advance on a different belt system with no black belt and the people who really wanted to spar and learn to fight wouldnt be compared to them. I think its a great idea that could help solve a lot of the problems with TKD mcdojos.

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