Soulburn

I have been studying Tae Kwon Do and have achieved my green belt. I also took shaolin kempo karate(Villari) for a while. I have been wanting to get into grappling but in Wisconsin no one offers it in the midwest. While I am very loyal to the masters that have taught me, I want to be open minded and learn more. I also loke to ask my teachers questions. I recently brought up grappling to one of my tkd instructors. He let me take a mounted position and asked me what i would do. I am just a beginnner so I said I would throw punches to his face. Every time i went to do this he motioned punches to my groin before I could raise my fist. This was his solution to ground fighting. This seemed pretty logical, but would like others' opinion. Like i said im a beginner and like to obtain info anywhere i can.

ryanhall

With such a superior position, there is little to no chance that your instructor's punches to the groin would stop you from beating his head in. Hitting from the bottom really doesn't work very well at all. Being tapped on the groin won't stop anyone set on really hurting you. Sorry, but getting grappling advice from your average TKD instructor is like asking a junior med school student how to perform brain surgery. Why don't you join your high school wrestling team (if you are in high school)? That would be a good start.

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"Ray, when someone asks you if you're a god, you say YES!"

Great Sage

Soulburn,

I would digress from asking your TKD instructor about grappling. Apparently, he knows nothing about it. In a MOUNT position, you're either riding very high with knees tucked into your opponent's pits, or riding low with grapes around his legs. NEITHER presents an opportunity for a groin punch, unless you're going about it wrong.

That said, if you're truly interested in grappling, do take up wrestling or join a gym... There are plenty of TKD gyms around... You can learn that stuff later when you have a wife and kids.

__________________
The sage experiences without abstraction,
And accomplishes without action;
He accepts the ebb and flow of things,
Nurtures them, but does not own them,
And lives, but does not dwell.

eXcessiveForce

Marc "Animal" Macyoung" has a story about a JJ guy how took him to the ground and got his knees in his pits. So he bit him in the crotch and they guy dismounted very quickly.

I would imagine that that would stop even a person intent on doing serious damage.

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eXcessiveFORCE.

If you must use force, make it excessive.

eXcessiveForce

Also asking anyone who does not have ground skills about ground fighting is not going to work. Hell ask a wrestler how to fight you way out of a lock and they have no clue because against the joint moves are not allowed in wresting.

Many instructors don't know anything about ground fighting or only a little bit. That is in most martial arts not just TKD.

Hell that's like getting kicking advice from a JJ instructor. chances are they aren't going to kick that well. That doesn't mean that there aren't JJ instructors that can't kick very well.

Even instructors that teach the same system as I do often have not spent the time on the ground working it so they have no clue if it really works or not. Just like when instructors have tried to convince me that wrist locks are combat effective after "catching a punch" I tried it but couldn't get it to work. Now after hitting them several times i've been able to get wrist locks to work.


Hell I had one student on the ground face down arms out both knees on the back of one arm and he picked me up with a one handed push up action. Surprised the hell out of me.

__________________
eXcessiveFORCE.

If you must use force, make it excessive.

Thai Bri

There is no denying that there are ways to escape some of the grappling moves by breaking the common rules that we have in classes. But you'll still get trashed, especially if you piss him off by biting his balls.

You need a good understanding of grappling to pull off dirty tricks against grapplers.

Szczepankiewicz

If you bite Bitty you'll never be rid of him.

Thai Bri

He knows. Believe me.....he knows.........

eXcessiveForce

That was Mark "animal" mcyoungs story not mine.

a knife makes grappling a lot easier in my opinion

__________________
eXcessiveFORCE.

If you must use force, make it excessive.

Great Sage

Honestly, I don't believe that's possible unless the guy mounting you was actually pressing his crotch against you... There's quite a difference between the length of someone's thighs and your neck...

In a high mount position, you're snug into his pits and your buttocks rests slightly on the center of his chest... No way another person's mouth can reach your crotch...

__________________
The sage experiences without abstraction,
And accomplishes without action;
He accepts the ebb and flow of things,
Nurtures them, but does not own them,
And lives, but does not dwell.

eXcessiveForce

I believe it was after an unsuccessful attempt to dismount the guy.

here the site if you care to read it.

http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/


Since he is commonly placed in the same arena as Geoff Thompson and Sammy Franco. I don't doubt his claim. In fact I probably have had the chance to do the same thing while rolling. But I'm not sure I'd do it even if my life was on the line.

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eXcessiveFORCE.

If you must use force, make it excessive.

Szczepankiewicz

If train with Bitty he encourages that type of stuff...

Thai Bri

Only if they take their dentures out first, like you do. Gummy.

ryanhall

ExcessiveForce,
Marc "Animal" MacYoung is, in my estimation and that of many others, nowhere near the league of Dimitri, Franco, Thompson, et al. He writes good books, but those who have seen him in person after reading his books are almost always very disappointed in what they see--not any real skill to speak of, evidently. I haven't met him, but I get my information from instructors that were at the first Combat Coalition (now basically defunct) seminar in New Jersey. If you want some info on him, let me know and I'll PM you.

I am very hard pressed to believe his claims in general, as well as this particular one.

__________________
"Ray, when someone asks you if you're a god, you say YES!"

eXcessiveForce

I have no idea if he is any good. I had not heard anything really terrible about him or anything all that great. Just that he gave talks on self defense rather than sport combat stuff.

I don't know if he did it or not. He says he did and it could happen. Doubt you could do it often but the opportunity could present itself.

I found the site interesting though.

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eXcessiveFORCE.

If you must use force, make it excessive.