Self

Martial arts could be seen to have strong relations to religions? Even though i'm not religious in anyway- But religions promote self-peace and harmony which is the same for martial arts and fighting when only necessary but doing it so with honour. This is my perception on the comparison, Since i'm not religious yet follow teachings of martial arts, since i find great value in the majority of their morals. I haven't studied all of the different concpets of martial arts in depth; thus not being able know for definite. But do you as martial artists follow just one particular set of concepts? Do you find conflictions if you dont'?
If thiers any followers of religion and martial arts and religion, since both have both strong and possibly conflicting concepts, which ones do you live by?

I know this is very quisitive.

Tom Yum

You can learn the wisdom of a different culture and philosophy, while still remaining firm in your religious beliefs. Martial arts is what you make of it. I think for most people, it is access to a source of fitness, wisdom and culture.

You might develop a good understanding or appreciation of some different philosophies, but you live your life according to your own religious doctorine.

If you are talking about contact fighting, that is a different story since it is more of a sport. Did you watch olympic boxing, wrestling, judo or tae kwon do?

__________________

Love it, leave it or fix it.

Self

Good to reading your reply... And yes i did watch all three of those in the olympics, especially the boxing.

shirase

I think MA teachers shouldnt teach "religious" ideas unless their student(s) ask for them to or are willing to listen fully. Like you said they might conflict with their religion which could lead to messed up morals.

Si Williams

To be honest, i believe that martial art teachings and philosophies are more rewarding and worth while than a following a specific religion. living your life through the idea of being a well rounded martil artist helps you live with; not only a certain degree of confidence but a sence of fulfilment. A healthy martial art lifestyle in my opinion is simply more benificial than a religion, but theres no saying you can't do both, preference i guess.
Si Williams

__________________
Si Williams

CrossTrainer

The link between martial arts and religion is a fairly controversial theme for many "modern minds." Like you say religion "promote self-peace and harmony," but many would reply: "not really - they promote belief in authority and a sacrifice of
your individual morality; self-peace and harmony is just their brand name for this."
There might be some truth to this, but in a funny way I myself feel that many of the true, original ideals of the religions/philosophies behind martial arts have survived better in the martial arts communities than in their respective religious organizations.
Like my taiji instructor once said: "Both Buddha Gautama and later Osho said: we don't need any spiritual leaders. The crowd replied: YES MASTER, TEACH US MORE!" Many people wish to have a guru to follow, as a means of relief from the burden of trying to understand and cope with this world - and there are plenty of gurus and teachings supplied for them. Any teacher who demands to be your sole teacher actually asks you not to keep an open mind - so one should not confuse spirituality with mere authority.

Also, what is really the spiritual/religious ideas of martial arts in general? They are simply impossible to define for martial arts as a whole, even south asian martial arts. Daoist philosophy is based upon spontaniety, natural ability, "individuality" or "realness" as a tool for unification with the cosmos. Later historical grand wagon buddhism is more unitary, not so much praising the hermits but putting greater emphasis on the monotony of monastical life. And how long a gap is there between the daoist hermit and the idea of Wu Wei, and the militaristic discipline approaches of Tae Kwon Do or even buddhist wushu?

Martial arts and religion can be a mess, the can be a great mix, but one should never confuse religious principles with religious practices: as for the sake of buddhism, they rarely match eachother. Same goes for christianity, in my own humble opinion.

I hope I don't offend anyone in my rants - religion is a tricky subject. But I try to keep an open mind and must point out that I respect the religious beliefs of everyone I meet as long as they don't feel obliged more than one time to convince me that I'm probably going to hell .

IMO the martial artists most rational and relevant approach to religion in their arts and in life would be "Open-minded skepticism". Truly a paradox, but not oxymoronic - to me at last.

HtTKar

I think that every monotheistic religion states that God is everywhere, and God is all-knowing. If you can find him in your church, why wouldn't you be able to find him in your dojo? If there is only 1 God, then it doesn't matter where, how, or what you pray to Him. I pray to the same God in the dojos, as I do in Churches.

__________________
"The harder you train, the harder it is to surrender"
(Vince Lombardi)

CrossTrainer

Right on Ht!

The experience I had as a child saying my prayers, the experience I later felt when recieving the holy communion, and the experience I had lateron as an atheist in meditation - was the same phenomena.

Whether you call it minor enlightenment, presence of God, contact with the subconscious, Brahma, Allah or the Void of Dao - it is most probably the same phenomenon and this spiritual side of our existence is experienced daily by all kinds of people with all kinds of explanation as to what this might be. No religion, spirituality or system of metaphysics has the one and only recipe.

Many atheists say that religion is a way to explain nature and a way for man to cope with the greatness of this world: but it is also a way to explain any kind of spiritual sensation that we still can not understand what really is. Natural science tells us nothing about it. OK, science tells us about alpha waves, about dopamine and serotonin and all kinds of neurologic phenomena. but it does not explain the Quality of Spiritual Experience. The QSE must be experienced through activity which does not call for a notebook in hand and a set of measuring instruments all around you, and a team of doctors and scientists watching. And this is why we must keep an open mind even though we still remain skeptical towards any religious authority or superficial belief.

Self

These replies have overwhelmed me, has gathered some valuable aspects at looking at it which is all i wanted.