Tom Yum

This is true, but that's a bold assumption to make on persons you know little about.

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treelizard

I'm not interested in the circumstances of your situation.

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Tom Yum

You're not interesting.

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Tom Yum

Yes you do.

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Tom Yum

Uh huh. Sure.

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GQchris

Suffering also does a lot of good.. I have learned some of the most valuable lessons in my life by suffering because of stupid decisions that I made... it was the only way I was finally able to learn.

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DickHardman

you can cut the sexual tension in here with a knife.

Tom Yum

It is a good tool for learning, Chris, I can relate.

People can't change people - only God and circumstances can, I suppose. And suffering is one of many circumstances. Should we cause suffering on another person so as to change them?

I'm personally against this - except when it is institutionalized and used for improvement/conditioning/training rather than isolated and used for malicious purposes.

For example, a good coach will make his track stars burn rubber until they are heaving. The runners go through intense internal burning in their lungs and heaving, but push to finish one more meter. They suffer in exchange for hope that they can win their next event.

When Mike Tyson trained under Cus D'Amato, Cus made him hit the mitts for endless rounds, often until young iron Mike spewed his chow into a bucket...no doubt he suffered...but it developed hope in his mind to become the youngest heavyweight champ in the world.

Juvenile detention center bootcamps force at-risk kids to work endless hours under the hot sun until they learn that crime and bad behavior doesn't pay. They suffer under the sun, until they can be remolded into functional young adult citizens.

I suppose in these instances, people experience suffering that develops hopes...hopes of athletic victories or societies hopes of reforming bad folks.

Tom Yum

Sometimes suffering can happen in our lives due to external conditions.

We live in an imperfect world and from time to time, people or circumstances can cause suffering.

I guess circumstances beyond our control could cause suffering. For example, when a peson finds out they have inoperable cancer. The chemotherapy treatments cause immense suffering - something beyond what most are capable of bearing.

When we fall out of place with loved ones, it can cause emotional suffering as well.

Even during these external, uncontrollable circumstances I still believe that suffering produces hope.

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slayer31

Mike your first response to this thread was excellent brother.

Tom Yum

Good stuff, Mike. Thanks.

I'm convinced that a certain amount of suffering can re-define a person, like the way heat and pressure transform coal into diamonds.

The suffering is not solely my own, although I tried to come up with my own insight. It comes from a collection of others too whom had suffered, bothin in reading accounts of others whom I didn't know and from knowing them personallyand seeing them suffer before my eyes.

One of my childhood friends died of Leukemia in middle school. Another childhood friend is still living with the same illness, but gets really, really weak after treatments...but he's hanging in there.

His entire life was lived fighting and he never once let the illness dictate his will to do what he wanted. He pitched on our little league team, did it well and wanted to win just as bad as everyone else.

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Tom Yum

I like this.

Some people hate the world because of suffering. And on top of that, hate challenges. When I told a few friends about the SEAL pt program, I got some less than welcome responses. But I wanted to loose some weight, was willing to suffer to do so and also get a look into the military's bootcamps. The responses I got:

"You're full of Sh!t, Tom. You won't do it. You're just like everyone else...you'll talk a great game, but when it comes down to it, you'll balk. And even then if you do it, its because you've got something to prove."

I faced alot of negativity from simple direct comments to spinned-opinions of why I was doing it from a variety of different folks. But in the end, it was all talk.

None of my critics would sign up with me. why is that? Keep in mind I was enrolled in full-time science classes and working part-time. I admit that may not be as busy as most real professionals.

The challenge was physical, mental and emotional.

Every level of human experience, right? Starting off the excercises cold, wet and dirty while getting grilled aren't ideal workout conditions by any means...and finishing off a run that seems to go on forever after being thoroughly worked out isn't mentally as easy as say hopping onto a treadmill and stopping when you feel like it.

I never skipped a day and was there warming up before hand.

Nearing the end of it, I was feeling stronger as expected both physically and mentally. Maybe some people don't need these kinds of things because they're already tough, but if so, why back down from participating in a challenge like this if its physically, mentally and emotionally beneath them?

I suffered every day for about 6 weeks and lost 12 lbs without plastic surgery Objective complete.

After I finished the program people were saying "Who the hell do you think you are?!?! They must have coddled you guys if YOU made it!" "Yeah it wasn't the real thing, it was easier"

....spin, spin, spin, spin, spin.

Awesome. Any wisdom you (or Boar) may have is music to my ears.

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