Judo and BJJ

[spetnatz]

Can anyone tell me what are the main diferences between standup Judo and standup BJJ? Which one is the better standup art?

[jules]

judo by far.

[gregimotis]

I do BJJ and this is my (very limited) exp. with competant judoka:

they have no concept of guard work; they empathize gaining a control position and then stalling over submisions; From standing, they will toss you on your ass just about any time they feel like it.

So to answer your question directly... IMHO, Judo by far.

[jules]

IIRC BJJ does not care how you get your opponent on the ground. Judoish throws or Wrestling take downs. They are both worth 2 points. It's more like, "just get the guy on the ground; don't care how pretty or ugly it looks".

[MrPoopy]

From standing, Judo favors throws and BJJ favors takedowns. Judo is pretty much a throwing game.

Greg is right about Judoka not having a good guard game. But it's not real important to have a good guard game or even good ground work when you can just stall in a tournament.

[Thai Bri]

But Judo as a whole host of throws, many of which rarely get used because of their degree of difficulty in applying. BJJ has a few takedowns that are effective and easy to learn. In my book that makes BJJ "better".

[swan104]

I think a large proportion of the stand-up throws in Judo are dependent on a person wearing a gi. Some throws seem to work ok ie. the reaps (osotogari), possibly a hip throw etc. However, I doubt you can actually pull off a toma-nagae (or however it's spelt) in a fight though. Personally, being 10 and a half stone, I find it difficult to throw people about, especially if they're heavier than me.

I also get the impression that BJJ athletes cross-train in MT and wrestling to get a good grounding on their stand-up work. I'm just not sure how much stand up Judo they would actually train in. I've just read Renzo Gracie's book, "Matering JuJitsu" and the stand up portion does seem to be lifted from a boxing or kickboxing manual ie. how to jab, cross etc.

I think Renzo actually admits that the stand up work is from MT, so fair play to him, but that does hint heavily that BJJ is lacking until the fight goes to the ground.

[Szczepankiewicz]

It also depends on what venue you're talking about. Judo rules in Judo comps, like Poopy said, because the ground game is nullified by stalling and time limits.

Judo is usually free to train in. So why not do both?

[swan104]

I agree. It wouldn't be difficult to integrate the two together. It does depend on what your objectives are. I trained in Judo many moons ago, but still remember quite a bit of it. Nowadays, I tend to do grappling based on BJJ and other ground-based systems, but the Judo did give me a little bit of grounding in it.

I have gotten away with a few Judo throws when rolling, but it's normally me just playing around with things to see if it works for me!

Mind you, I watched Pride FC the other day, and didn't Yoshida take down Vanderlei Silva with a hip throw?

[MrPoopy]

You have a few different takedowns in BJJ that are going to work for you, and it's the same way in Judo. You should have a few bread and butter throws that work more often than others.

It takes a lot longer to become competent with throws than takedowns.

Takedowns are just easier to do.

[Szczepankiewicz]

Have you pulled off any takedowns in a Judo comp?

[MrPoopy]

I haven't. But then again I've only been to one real competition. I've pulled off takedowns against Judoka in practice. I did, however, pull off a nice o soto gari against an older brown belt for ippon.

I got hit with a lot of takedowns during that competition when I was going against a wrestling instructor. The more experienced Judoka's didn't fall for them, especially my instructor, who tossed the wrestling instructor on his ass several times.

[Szczepankiewicz]

Did you compete white belt division or was it one big mix?

[spetnatz]

If standup judo is that much better than standup BJJ it must be very difficult for a BJJ player to defeat a Judo player because the BJJ player will have to start by downing the Judo player in order to use its ground techniques.

[MrPoopy]

Several other clubs were invited, but snow was in the weather forcast so I don't think anyone was willing to do much traveling. So it was just the regular guys at the club that showed up. I had to compete with everyone.


Most of the time it is pretty difficult to get a Judoka down, but they are bad about giving their backs to you. You can imagine the possible takedowns from there.

There's not many "problems" with standup BJJ. The practice good takedowns. But they don't do it enough. Atleast when I was doing BJJ that's how it was. You hardly ever started standing.