The Ultimate in Martial Arts

AdamTKD · 12-07-2003, 05:58 PM

Hello There.

A while ago (perhaps two months or so) I had a look at a BJJ club I'd found
the details on over the internet. The lesson itself was made up of a certain amount of time doing warm up and then onto training what I took to be, and
was right as it later turned out, to be sport orientated BJJ. When I asked the instructor there a question about self defence training he answered in what to me was a disinterested style that the BJJ he taught could be used on the street (or something similar).

It occurs to me that this is fine provided you start the fight kneeling down facing your opponent and there's a crash mat handy.

Anyway, I was just wondering if there was anyone out there with knowledge of self defence BJJ as what I saw suffered from a lack of instruction in takedowns, it was all groundwork.

Adam.

mjohnson · 12-12-2003, 10:11 PM

Adam,

True some BJJ moves can be carried over for self defense. But if you don't train for self defense, it would be hard to carry it over. Most dojo's train "sport bjj" because that is more appealing to the general public. People want to compete and get trophies, but not get their face smashed. When you first start BJJ, most instructors wait a month or two before going into take downs. In your warm up you should have been doing break falls and so on to learn how to fall correctly. If your serious about developing a ground game, stick it out in BJJ. What instructor is this and where did he get his rank? Does he have a website? Hope that helps.

MJ

MrPoopy · 12-12-2003, 10:28 PM

You just need to learn it and then you'll know what can and can't be applied on the street or for self defense.

BJJ is mostly ground work. So don't expect to learn great takedowns or throws.

Mr. Miyagi · 12-13-2003, 12:56 PM

I think self defense is not as complicated as people make it out to be. You can only be so prepared, you can't really plan for the variables, like dealing with a knife or gun, or getting jumped by four guys at once. No matter how much you train you can't ever really say that you 'know' how to disarm an armed attacker nor that you can fight three guys at once.

BJJ's strength is not takedowns. But you learn enough about it to take down most ignorant attackers on the street. 99% of attackers would never expect you to shoot in, to throw them, or trip them down. In bjj you learn enough about it to take down most anyone who doesn't train ma. Hell, Royce Gracie took down several guys that KNEW he was going to take them down in mma competition. If you have a joe average jerk in reasonable shape at about 175 lbs against bjj white belt with three months training at 150 lbs, and joe average jerk starts in the mount I still would put my money on bjj white belt to reverse and win.
No matter what you train, you are usually learning techniques and getting into good physical shape too. Athletic training tends to turn you into a better fighter, I don't think anyone here would want to get into a fight with say, Kobe Bryant or Emmit Smith, those guys are fast and strong and probably could hit pretty hard. Each person has their own physical limitations, and I think bjj is a good art because it minimizes those limitations in the context of a fight.

Training has to be done in a safe and efficient way. People who train striking wear headgear and sometimes body gear when sparring, and they don't hit full force. You can't say that such training is only good if you have your helmet on, both of you are wearing gloves, and you don't get to hit full force. We have to take precautions to avoid injury. If you get injured you can't train, and can't learn anything. That's why bjj, which stresses groundfighting, spends lots of time on a padded mat and people start from their knees. A good bjj teacher will spend a reasonable amount of time on takedowns; certainly not like wrestlers and not as much as judo guys, but a good amount.

CKD · 12-22-2003, 10:02 AM

Machado bjj is pretty good for self defense. Most slef defense experts like Paul Vunak take it.

jubaji · 12-22-2003, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Miyagi

I don't think anyone here would want to get into a fight with say, Kobe Bryant .

Well, not if you're a woman in a hotel at least...

12-07-2003, 05:58 PM	#1 (permalink)
AdamTKD Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Milton Keynes Posts: 34 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	MA : Sport and/vs Self Defence Hello There. A while ago (perhaps two months or so) I had a look at a BJJ club I'd found the details on over the internet. The lesson itself was made up of a certain amount of time doing warm up and then onto training what I took to be, and was right as it later turned out, to be sport orientated BJJ. When I asked the instructor there a question about self defence training he answered in what to me was a disinterested style that the BJJ he taught could be used on the street (or something similar). It occurs to me that this is fine provided you start the fight kneeling down facing your opponent and there's a crash mat handy. Anyway, I was just wondering if there was anyone out there with knowledge of self defence BJJ as what I saw suffered from a lack of instruction in takedowns, it was all groundwork. Adam.

12-12-2003, 10:28 PM	#3 (permalink)
MrPoopy Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Ks Posts: 782 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	You just need to learn it and then you'll know what can and can't be applied on the street or for self defense. BJJ is mostly ground work. So don't expect to learn great takedowns or throws. __________________ MrPoopy

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12-12-2003, 10:11 PM	#2 (permalink)
mjohnson Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Andrews, Texas Posts: 79 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Adam, True some BJJ moves can be carried over for self defense. But if you don't train for self defense, it would be hard to carry it over. Most dojo's train "sport bjj" because that is more appealing to the general public. People want to compete and get trophies, but not get their face smashed. When you first start BJJ, most instructors wait a month or two before going into take downs. In your warm up you should have been doing break falls and so on to learn how to fall correctly. If your serious about developing a ground game, stick it out in BJJ. What instructor is this and where did he get his rank? Does he have a website? Hope that helps. MJ

12-13-2003, 12:56 PM	#4 (permalink)
Mr. Miyagi Registered User Join Date: Oct 2000 Posts: 758 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I think self defense is not as complicated as people make it out to be. You can only be so prepared, you can't really plan for the variables, like dealing with a knife or gun, or getting jumped by four guys at once. No matter how much you train you can't ever really say that you 'know' how to disarm an armed attacker nor that you can fight three guys at once. BJJ's strength is not takedowns. But you learn enough about it to take down most ignorant attackers on the street. 99% of attackers would never expect you to shoot in, to throw them, or trip them down. In bjj you learn enough about it to take down most anyone who doesn't train ma. Hell, Royce Gracie took down several guys that KNEW he was going to take them down in mma competition. If you have a joe average jerk in reasonable shape at about 175 lbs against bjj white belt with three months training at 150 lbs, and joe average jerk starts in the mount I still would put my money on bjj white belt to reverse and win. No matter what you train, you are usually learning techniques and getting into good physical shape too. Athletic training tends to turn you into a better fighter, I don't think anyone here would want to get into a fight with say, Kobe Bryant or Emmit Smith, those guys are fast and strong and probably could hit pretty hard. Each person has their own physical limitations, and I think bjj is a good art because it minimizes those limitations in the context of a fight. Training has to be done in a safe and efficient way. People who train striking wear headgear and sometimes body gear when sparring, and they don't hit full force. You can't say that such training is only good if you have your helmet on, both of you are wearing gloves, and you don't get to hit full force. We have to take precautions to avoid injury. If you get injured you can't train, and can't learn anything. That's why bjj, which stresses groundfighting, spends lots of time on a padded mat and people start from their knees. A good bjj teacher will spend a reasonable amount of time on takedowns; certainly not like wrestlers and not as much as judo guys, but a good amount.

12-22-2003, 10:02 AM	#5 (permalink)
CKD Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 771 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Machado bjj is pretty good for self defense. Most slef defense experts like Paul Vunak take it.

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