Who is the Father of Modern MMA

[IPON]

I am not sure if this question was asked/answered before (you guys probably know more than I).

I think all would agree that pankration, ultimately, was probably the first MMA as we now define it. However, looking at the last century and doing some light research, here are my thoughts (very brief of course).

When Kano was sending students to spread the gospel of Judo, Mitsuyo Maeda was chosen as one of the disciples. Before coming to Brazil, Maeda probably had hundreds of challenge matches from boxers to catch wrestlers. The concept of the challenge matches were passed to the Gracies along with the Judo/Jujutsu and probably other techniques he picked up or refined. The Gracies maintained this tradition of challenge matches which later became known as Vale Tudo (as an aside, the name Vale Tudo actually came from a reporter covering one of these street brawl/challenges.). The concept of Vale Tudo lead, obviously, to Rorion's brilliant business idea for the UFC (please everyone take a moment of silence for we shall never see anything like the early UFC again...damn wuss-politicians ). Now the concept of what is now known as MMA in the U.S. I believe had its genesis here, in the UFC, and probably like Vale Tudo the name "MMA" was coined by a reporter or marketing person.

Now I do realize that the term MMA has been used for about 12-15yrs, pankration was being revived, shootfight etc. So my question is who should be considered the Father of "Modern MMA".

I am just raising this because I thought I would be a good subject for discussion. So provide the rationale along with an answer.

[m.artist]

well i noticed bruce lee wasn't on there.....hmmm....

[IPON]

Originally Posted by m.artist

well i noticed bruce lee wasn't on there.....hmmm....

Well, I thought about Lee and realized that MMA really refers to the "NHB" combat sport with techniques that are tested in the ring. This has never happened with Lee (beyond demonstrations). Also, there are alot of people who have blended styles prior to Lee, Lee simply made the masses aware of this concept blending and alive training (now that does not dismiss his contribution). I also thought of Professor Vee's - Vee Ryu Jitsu and Vee Arnis Jitsu and very SD oriented MMA, Kajukenbo, Small circle jujitsu, Sambo, Hapkido, etc can all be considered MMAs I suppose, but then the I would have a listing of 200 or more MA styles

[m.artist]

what about christian harfouche and shorite ryu tai-jitsu?..

[IPON]

Originally Posted by m.artist

what about christian harfouche and shorite ryu tai-jitsu?..

Ok, What about them??

[m.artist]

ok well he made a great mixed martial art and i would say that it's very affective so i was just wondering why he wasnt on there...

[IPON]

Ok, as I said before I am refering to MMA as the combat sport. The grandmasters that I mentioned created thier respective styles between 1940's-1950's (ok maybe early 1960's). I obviously did not make a complete list, but since you do not agree with my posts what is your definition of MMA as it is currently used?

[m.artist]

oh no it's not that i don't agree...i was just suggesting u put a lil more people to choose from that's all..it's not that i don't agree....sorry for the misunderstanding

[adacas]

can't leave out kajukenbo which started in the 50's I think.

[IPON]

Man I screwed up this poll I meant to say JIM ARVANITIS - PANKRATION not Earl Montigue .... my bad Unfortunately I do not know how to edit the poll

[Mr. Miyagi]

I don't think MMA has been going for long enough to declare any one person as that big of an influence. Maybe we could answer this in ten years.
But even so, it's like asking who is the father of boxing or something so broad and debatable. In these sports, stars rise and fall all the time and the game evolves. Noone is really the father. I guess you could say that all those guys are pioneers.

[platinum_angel]

hmmmmmm definatly mr. miyagi

[danfaggella]

well, the guy that brought jj to brazil, was not interested so much in starting a mixed martial art system, however, hulio and carlos gracie were, they "refined" JJ to fit real street fights, with strikes and such. now BJJ or gracie JJ is practiced by most MMA fighters due to its effectiveness, i believe hulio and carlos had the greatest effect on mma out of those people

[IPON]

danfaggella - I won't disagree with your choice which is why I started the thread, but I do think some of your facts are not correct. When Maeda left Japan to promote Judo he went to many countries and was involved in numerous bare knuckle/submission fights his style constanly developed. Now when Carlos and HELIO go involved there was not need to "refinfe for street fighting" that's silly and a lot of hype. Carlos was a terror prior to any alleged changes by Helio. And these changes that are usually discussed can be linked to Kano directly or Maeda. In fact Vale Tudo is nothing differnt than what Maeda was already doing.

Also, I truely don'ty think the Gracies were interetsed in start a MMA sytem. I think they felt only BJJ was needed...at least that what they used to say in the early UFC. But Helio, only maintained using techniques he could make work...if it din't work he threw it out.

Now I am not taking anything away from the Gracie Clan they started Vale Tudo in Brazil no question. But Bruce lee showed everyone the 1 inch punch which noone realized was not Bruces creation but that of Wing chun.

OK Sorry about rambling

[CKD]

Interestingly Carlos Gracie was not the only person Maeda taught. He also taught some other guy who claims he made no changes to the art and it is the exact same thing as bjj and the guy's students compete in the bjj tournaments often.