bjj fighters in nhb: where have all the boys gone?

[Americana]

Are there any top bjj fighters left in any division?

In the UFC heavy weight division theres Randy Couture, Pete Williams, Pedro Rizzo, Kevin Randleman, etc. I can't think of any bjj guys.

UFC middle weight had Tito, Frank Shamrock (not active), Bohlander, Metzger. Again no bjj fighters.

Light weight there is Fabio Iha, but I think he's associated with Ruas, does anyone know?

Pride heavy weights are Kerr, Vovichian (sp?), the japanese monster who beat Ken, Coleman. Again no bjj guys.

Pride middle weight has one name: Sak. He's beaten Renzo, Royler, Royce and soon to be another Gracie.

What's the story?

[Underdog]

All the guys you mentioned did CROSSTRAIN; the sport has evolved; pure BJJ was great when noone expected it, but now the competition is smarten and DID BJJ as a part of their training regime, but pure jiujitsu now just dont cut it.

But, in a sense, each and everyone, to get proficient on the gound must study BJJ, so, in a sense, everyone is from BJJ...

[Temujin]

I asked the same question a while back and got ripped for it. Oh well. I think since Sak whooped all the Gracies (except those who won't fight him), there seems to be a re-grouping going on for BJJ in MMA. They way I see it, a pure BJJ guy will NEVER be KOP and will always have trouble against good crosstrainers. Pure ANYTHING is a bad idea nowadays whether it be pure striking or pure whatever. The game has evolved amazingly fast.

[nhb_wanabe]

you're right.

BJJ is useless.

no one should waste their time with it anymore.

[Mr. Miyagi]

In the heavyweights, there is Carlos Barretto, who has to be included in any top 10, if not top 5.
In the middleweights, Renzo could be a top 10 and also maybe Bustamante if he fights more.
In the lightweights there is Fabiano Iha and another fighter you forgot to mention, JOHN LEWIS.

Miyagi:

I think Barretto is good, but over-rated.

Josh Barnett has a BJJ background, I believe. Minotaur is another up-and-comer. Enson is good, when he uses the right game-plan.

Allan Goes can legitimately claim he beat Sak. Sak has admitted that he feels he lost the fight.

All the Gracies are still legitimate threats to beat anyone near their weight.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Barretto has triangled Randleman, had a very close fight with Igor V where he mounted him, triangled Bobish, guillotined Brandon Lee Hinkle, dominated Tra Telligman, choked out Illoukhine, and beat the crap out of Paul Varelans. Not bad at all, if fact besides a couple of close decisions which could have gone either way, Barretto really hasn't been beaten.
Goes is good but to me whenever he fights he looks like he weighs 220 (like Tito) and he fights against 190 pounders. Also, he "dominates" people and doesn't seem to finish fights. You keep bringing up the admission Sak made that Goes "won" that fight but it was very close and Sak was very confused about how to deal with the buttscoot back then. Now he would kick the crap out of that buttscooting staller. I don't think Goes deserves another rematch because there is no way he can KO/submit Sak. He just recently went the distance with Vernon White whom Sak armbarred.

[Joe Manco]

Originally posted by Mr. Miyagi
... I don't think Goes deserves another rematch because there is no way he can KO/submit Sak. He just recently went the distance with Vernon White whom Sak armbarred.

Huh? Since when does a common opponent have anything to do with how a fight would turn out?

Tommy Hearns KO'd Duran in 2 rounds. Yet Duran took Hagler the distance and damned near outpointed him (IMO he did). So, by your reasoning Hearns should have murdred Hagler too. Watch the tape. Someone got murdered that night when they fought, but it wasn't Marvin.

One of the very first things a fighter learns is A beats B, B beats C, so therefore A should beat C ... is an invalid equation.

Yours truly,

Joe

[Sean]

Sak beat Renzo: Igor beat Sak: Coleman beat Igor: Mo beat Colemen: Renzo beat Mo (in 18 seconds!) There is a lesson oin this, that applies to more than just MMA.

[Mr. Miyagi]

No, I didn't mean to make this into a law of syllogism thing. Sak is exciting, he always tries to and usually finishes his opponent, and has some big wins. Goes stalls and buttscoots a lot, usually does not finish his opponents, and doesn't really have any big wins. Champs like Frank and Sak are kick ass for the sport, if Goes is the champ we will be in for decisions and buttscooting just like if Henderson becomes the champ we will be in for takedowns and decisions.