Takedown and guillotine

[smalldog]

When you shoot....you grab behind the bottom of the calfs.Not the back of the knees or the ankles.
Put your lead knee between his legs.
Put your head on the hip opposite of the side of your forward knee.Bury your ear into his hip.... this helps block from the guilotine.You will be using your head to push with.
Now pull with your hands and push with your shoulder and head to the opposite side .NOT straight back.
Never put your head in the middle of his belly.
When you shoot, aim behind him.That way you hit hard and dont shoot short.
Keep good posture and dont lower your head.Look behind him with your head up.If you miss or get sprwled on you have good posture and can come up under the arm and take the back or stand to get the plummel.

[jubaji]

Originally Posted by smalldog

When you shoot....you grab behind the bottom of the calfs.Not the back of the knees or the ankles.
.

This is a bit too categorical.

[smalldog]

At the bottom of your calves is where it tapers before the ankle.The ankle is too low.( you can step out of it.)The knee is too high,you need to put your shoulder just above the knees to push and if your hands are on the back of the knees you get no folcrum.Just pushing against your own hands.

[Bjjexpertise@be]

I've seen people lift them straight off teh ground(them standing up while holding htem on their shoulders.) My theory is to shoot real deep and then stand up, is this how it is done?

[smalldog]

If the guy folds from the impact of the shot you can stand and slam.
But most often he will be trying to sprawl on you.Hence going to the side.
If he is able to stand you hook a leg with your leg and take him down.
If he sprawls then you go under the arm and go for his back.That is why posture is so important.

[Bjjexpertise@be]

If he tries to sprawl, I drive it to the side instead of straight? Will he fall if I shoot into position and do what you told me, the using the leg at the same side of my head to drive(along with the aid of my head),?

Which one ofthose guys is you?

[smalldog]

No,you always go to the side.Look at the first picture of Randy.See how he has his hands, and his head is straight up and his ear is pushing against Roberts side.His knee is in the center.He will use the outside leg and his head and shoulder to drive to his left while he uses his hands to pull on the back of the calves.That way Robert will fall to the side where you can get side control.Robert wants to push off of Randy so he can sprawl his legs out.If you put your head in the middle he can put his body weight on you and make it easier to sprawl on you.
If Robert doesnt do anything than it would be easy to pick him up and slam him from there.
If you just go straight forward you will land in his guard every time.

[jubaji]

Originally Posted by smalldog

At the bottom of your calves is where it tapers before the ankle.The ankle is too low.( you can step out of it.)The knee is too high,.

You are not always (or even very often) going to be able to 'decide' exactly from what position you finish a shot unless you are shooting on some I-practice-takedowns-twice-a-week-for-ten-minutes-in-my-dojo 'grappler'. It just doesn't work that way.

[Seifer2399]

Originally Posted by smalldog

At the bottom of your calves is where it tapers before the ankle.The ankle is too low.( you can step out of it.)

When I said chopping DOWN at the knees, you are doing as the guy in the picture is doing - I was giving BJJExpertise an aiming point for his chop. The hands will hit behind the knees, and slide down to the tapered part of the calves, and even the back of the ankles. Hitting behind the knees isn't required, you can even chop lower - the lower the better. Eventually you can chop lower behind the calf, but I like to hit behind the knees just in case I want to transition to another takedown where it requires me to have control of the knees i.e. wrestling double leg.
The ankle too low? Stepping out? If you are driving into a guy and have the ankle properly blocked, if he "steps out" he's gonna tip over. So far whenever I've gotten the ankles they either 1. fall over or 2. lose balance just enough for me to switch to a single. I'm not saying you're totally wrong with ankles being too low and the guy will step out, I'm saying that there is some merit to blocking the ankles.

Best regards,

Seifer2399

[Seifer2399]

Originally Posted by Bjjexpertise@be

I've seen people lift them straight off teh ground(them standing up while holding htem on their shoulders.) My theory is to shoot real deep and then stand up, is this how it is done?

Now you're talking about a wrestling double leg tackle (rather than the standard double leg tackle we were discussing before). This is the transition game that will come into play once you gain more experience in wrestling and get more confident in your shots.

Going back to your original question, (getting caught in the guillotine), you have to remember that since you were just "grappling" with your buddy, there was no striking involved, and I'll admit, takedowns are a lot tougher with straight grappling involved - you know they're comin'. In MMA, takedowns are a lot easier since your opponent now has to worry about standup striking and knees etc. Basically what I'm trying to say is that even though we have a GREAT thread going on takedowns here to avoid the guillotine, you should also work on 1. setups for takedowns so he won't see them comin or sprawl that easily and 2. the escapes from the guillotine.

Have you tried just going to a clinch and taking him down from there? Headlock clinch takedown is my fav.

Best regards,

Seifer2399

[smalldog]

Not here to argue .Of course you will not get the perfect grip everytime you try to take someone down.Anyone who has any mat time knows this.Thats why I was so specific as to giving options if sprawled on.I even went over the leg trip if he doesnt succeed.
Just pointing out where you want to be for the correct position.
These pics are 6-8 years old.The guy showing the take down is Randy Couture.This was at Straightblast gym.I am still training with Randy at Team Quest.That is how we are taught.I believe the question was "how to avoid the guilloutine during a double leg takedown".
You are not doing a double if your not controlling both legs.So to avoid it you stick your head in and push to the side.There is no space to get the arm in.
If you do any BJJ you have to understand creating and taking away space.
Dan Henderson gave an entire seminar on controlling the head and the counters.I'm pretty sure I got everything right.But,if there is something I missed or something you feel you can add I am always wanting to learn more.

[blade_cs]

Hi

I appologize ahead of time if this may be off topic, but I didn't want to start a new thread.

How would you defend against a BJJ tackle, but remain standing up (maybe due to multiple opponents)? Sprawling makes you end up in a vulnerable position for attacks.

[Bjjexpertise@be]

I'll try that takedown today. I've also noticed that it was easy to lift them right off the ground the second they try to sprawl.

[smalldog]

Multiple opponants?Strike and run like hell.
In a real situation they will not be coming at you one at a time.Kung fu movie style.And you sure dont want to go to the ground.I would strike and maybe try and push one to block the others and beat feet.If it's just two guys and you have real good skills you might be able to stand and fight.By skills I mean boxing,kicking and throws.

[Bjjexpertise@be]

.....what?????

Anybody knows some exercises that i can do to improve my shooting speed?