Takedown and guillotine

[Bjjexpertise@be]

Whenever i shoot in for a takedown, I sometimes get guillotined. Any suggestions on completing the takedown without being guillotined?

[jubaji]

Originally Posted by Bjjexpertise@be

Whenever i shoot in for a takedown, I sometimes get guillotined. Any suggestions on completing the takedown without being guillotined?

Sounds like you are extending too much. Keep your shoulders in a verticle line with your hips as you shoot, keep your neck bulled, and get right up close to your opponent as soon as you penetrate. Don't waste any time once you have shot. Finish quickly.

[Bjjexpertise@be]

I think I'm thinking when I go into matches without even knowing I'm thinking it. When i shoot for a takedown, I'm supposed to not know I'm even shooting until I've finished half the takedown right?

[IPON]

Originally Posted by Bjjexpertise@be

I think I'm thinking when I go into matches without even knowing I'm thinking it. When i shoot for a takedown, I'm supposed to not know I'm even shooting until I've finished half the takedown right?

BJJ - you are a wrestler now use wrestling terms please...it is a front head lock not a guillotine. A guillotine in grappling MA is a choke in wresting it is a pinning move, completely different technique.

Like Jubaji said you are overextending and telegraphing the move. You probably are not that quick yet or you are thinking and that hesitation is all somone needs to react. You probably are over thinking becuase you are nervous mostly becuase you are not confident with your techniques which is why Jubaji and I have been stressing basics first. Also, I guarantee you are shooting with your head down and reaching, you don't close the gap with your arms. You may also want to look at your stance this can also effect how well you shoot. Are you a defensive/offensive wrtestler or just wrestling

You have to set up all moves, the set up cause a momentary distraction or suprise so you can work a move. I was very fast so off the line I would shoot .. suprise too fast to react before I was in deep and TD and if not a TD - transition to second or third move. Another example is tap and go - tap the forehead, he blinks, you have shot in suprise. So the tap is the set up for your move.

There are a lot of shared principle here with MAs though this is a sport.

[Bjjexpertise@be]

I don't mean the front head lock, I mean the guillotine CHOKE. When ever i grapple with my cousin, he keeps getting it on me whenever i shoot.

[Seifer2399]

Originally Posted by Bjjexpertise@be

I don't mean the front head lock, I mean the guillotine CHOKE. When ever i grapple with my cousin, he keeps getting it on me whenever i shoot.

This is very common in shots - either your cousin has a great sprawl, or you're not performing several key points when you shoot (I'm assuming you're going for a double leg tackle or a double leg wrestling tackle or wrestling single leg, i.e. NOT a single leg takedown where you change your level and hit below the knee):

1. Keep your head up and DRIVE - if it's the double leg tackle, make sure your hands / arms are chopping behind his ankles and hit him like a truck, keeping your head to the outside of his jab side - I'm sure you know the mechanics of it . . .

2. DRIVE - if he sprawled and you can feel him going for the guillotine, driving should keep him off balance (make sure you have your hands behind his ankles) - if for some reason you still can't get him down, switch your knees and try to do an outside single wrestling, or put your head to the inside and go for a low single wrestling - just make sure you keep hitting your transitions - it takes a "feel" which you'll develop with more rolling and wrestling as well.

3. Go to your BJJ class and work on your shots. It's much easier to see all what I've written put into action rather than learn from words.

Best regards,

Seifer2399

[Bjjexpertise@be]

1. Keep your head up and DRIVE - if it's the double leg tackle, make sure your hands / arms are chopping behind his ankles and hit him like a truck, keeping your head to the outside of his jab side - I'm sure you know the mechanics of it . . .

Why go for the anles? I was always told to chop behind the knees.

[IPON]

Originally Posted by Bjjexpertise@be

I don't mean the front head lock, I mean the guillotine CHOKE

BJJ I appologize I thought this was a wrestling question

[Seifer2399]

Originally Posted by Bjjexpertise@be

Why go for the anles? I was always told to chop behind the knees.

Chop behind the knees to buckle the legs, THEN get the hands down to the ankles while driving - it's impossible for him to keep his footing when his ankles are blocked. Knees will get you halfway there - if he has a decent sprawl, you won't take him down with just a grab to the knees UNLESS you do the double wrestling leg tackle where you pick him up at an angle - the "hands behind the ankles" is for the standard double leg tackle.

Best regards,

Seifer2399

[Bjjexpertise@be]

so from now on when i shoot for the double, I go for behind the knees AND THEN get my hand behind his ankles and then drive?

[Seifer2399]

Originally Posted by Bjjexpertise@be

so from now on when i shoot for the double, I go for behind the knees AND THEN get my hand behind his ankles and then drive?

Chop downard on the knees. This buckles the legs - when you chop down, your hands will automatically slide down to the ankles. If anything, be sure you block the ankles, and drive.

Like I said, you should ask an instructor to demonstrate the double leg tackle - I can go on verbally about this on and on, but until you see it in action, and perform it a couple of times live, will it truly sink in.

Also, this move is hit or miss - if you hit it, fine - if he doesn't go down, THAT'S when you have to transition i.e. to an outside single leg, or put your head to the inside and go for a single wrestling leg, etc. etc. The whole point of this is to make sure you don't get guillotined - you won't get guillotined if you keep your head up and drive your opponent off balance. If one takedown isn't working, don't keep forcing it - switch to another, and keep attacking. Since you're a wrestler now, you'll be drilled on what to look for and certain "takedown combos" that should keep you on the offensive.

Why don't you also work on guillotine escapes, just in case all else fails? At least when you get caught there you'll be able to keep grappling.

Best regards,

Seifer2399

[Bjjexpertise@be]

Actually our wrestling team has horrible takedowns, we always get taken down in every match, luckily our excellent groundgame makes up for it. And by the way, he tries to sprawl I don't think I will be able to get the ankles.

[jubaji]

Originally Posted by Bjjexpertise@be

Actually our wrestling team has horrible takedowns, .

That's not a good sign!

[Mr. Miyagi]

Originally Posted by Bjjexpertise@be

Whenever i shoot in for a takedown, I sometimes get guillotined. Any suggestions on completing the takedown without being guillotined?

If you are talking about bjj or grappling then there are a few technical ways to avoid being guillotined when you shoot. You should always have one arm in there so your neck isn't unprotected, practice takedowns slowly so you get used to that.
If they do happen to get you into a guillotine depending on how deep it is there are a couple of things you can try. If it is deep and you are worried about tapping out reach the opposite arm over your opponent's shoulder and put your hand over his back. Now you can go in the direction his guillotine his pulling and just wait for him to let go which he'll have to do as he won't get a tap from you. Ask someone to show you this one, from your class.

If it's not in tight you can just take him down. It's better to take him down by lifting him up, one arm between his legs so that when you end up on top of him he has a half guard at best. Then you can press your shoulder into his neck and force him to let go and you'll end up with side control. Ask someone to show you this too. It's pretty hard to explain.

You should consider getting Renzo's new bjj book. It explains and shows pictures of many techniques like this. I think Royler has one too. They're at all the big bookstores so you could browse them and decide which one you like more.

OOPS! I didn't realize you were talking about wrestling! Sorry! Then I have no idea what to do. But he's not allowed to actually choke you right? I'll leave the post up anyway.

[Bjjexpertise@be]

i have this nasty habit of shooting a foot away and to have my hind leg take a small step back before i shoot. AAAARRRRG SO ANNOYING!