Swinging a heavy club, so what? MORE SONNON BS!!!!!!!!

[shinobi22]

heavy clubs - what's the big deal?
I'd like the help of the board experts here. I at first triedposting this over on Sonnon's forum at rmax.tv, but I didn't receive a satisfactory reply. It seems that the Dinstinguished Master of Sports Scott Sonnon “invented” the “clubBELL” just a dusted off relic of old Indian clubs originally created from native American war clubs.

Heere's Sonnon with his "clubBELL" on his latest crap-zine:
http://www.circularstrengthmag.com/i...uiserswipe.avi
So this guy can swing a 45lbs club. So what? I can bench on a good day 305lbs. Whats the big frickin deal?
Is this shit legit or is it just some composite of rehashed pseduoscientific spin? Ive heard about him wrestling, but I dont give a damn if he's a world sombo champ. It's just wrestling and there's absolutely no way anyone could argue that fact that wrestling and coaching strength conditioning have ANYTHING to do with one another.

So for the records dont get huffy. I'm not a troll, but I call it like I see it. So who here has actually seen REAL results (not paid endorsements)??? Please don’t jump on the gravy train if your one of these putz Russian martial arts instructors with an affiliate program. It’s obvious that you Systema guys are getting PAID to say this shit works.

I only want to hear from people who are NOT financially involved with RMAX. this includes all of the fighers who Sonnon BOUGHT in order to claim that real men use his stuff so spare me that Egan Inoue and Andrei Arlovsky are using clubBELLS. They obviously sold out.

just smoke and mirrors and his heavy clubBELL swinging is just tricks for kids? Splain me, puh-leese.

CST Not!

[JaredExtreme]

Hmmm I have never head of this. I watched the video and uh, I don't see what the hype is.

[krys]

What is fuelling your obsession for Scott Sonnon kid? You are running all over the net talking trash about him, on at least five forums I know.....

First it was his fighting ability, now clubbels-bearclubs, what's next? his joint and respiratory health programme?

Why don't you go see him on one of his seminars and ask him those questions personally instead posting your BS eveywhere? You are a troll, more preciselly as somebody else allready said an agenda Troll....

For those who don't know bearclubs and kettlebelts are tools to strengthen the body and developp powerfull blows, some pretty good martial artists use them.....

[shadowkiller]

From the video it doesnt really seem like he is going to use it as a weapon. It looks like he is using it for a workout.

[3trees]

You said not to get huffy or treat you like a troll, but do you read your own writing? You're ranting like a fricken' troll. If you have real question, just ask it like you mean it without all the editorializing; you're far more likely to get a reasonable answer that way.

At any rate, since you asked, here's one answer. There are a lot of unconventional ideas gaining popularity in strength and sports training these days. Wiggins' programs of singles and doubles, Coach Davies' asymetric lifts using balance boards, kettlebells, rope climbing, odd size object and sandbag lifts, bodyweight lifting programs advocated by Scrapper and Furey (and used by most of the successful MMA fighters these days), GPP, and yes, even indian clubs.

Now if your complaint is that Sonnon claims he invented this method of working out, I could understand you. But it's my understanding, that he's only claiming the workout regimen he designed and that he's marketing clubs so people can do his workouts. That's entirely reasonable and for what it's worth, these workouts probably help train grip, core stability strength, and joint flexibility, all essential for grappling.

And while I'm identifying important grappling attributes, let's talk about bench press. By now, most of the functional strength experts agree that Bench is not a particularly good measure of strength. So unless you're a powerlifter training for a meet or a football player training for combine, your 305 doesn't mean shit. In fact, unless you're a 108 pound women powerlifter, your 305 is weak. Have a nice day.

David, Seattle

[Hikage]

A number of years ago, Scott Sonnon started a ROSS program at Millersville University in PA where we were the first University in the states to have such a program. I was teaching at the time another art at the same school and a number of my students cross-trained in his art. I'm not saying this to tout my own horn, but the bottom line is that he and I were instructors in teh same martial arts club at the same time. At one of his demonstrations to the school he displayed his ability to wield his club. He did not go into his rationalization as to the usefullness of this. Rather, as he always stresses body movement and fluidity, he came across as using the training as a way of manipulating energy around the body. He could use the same technique to reflect the energy of an attack.

AS to whether or not he invented it, I am not sure. Mr. Sonnon has earned much of my respect. Mr. Sonnon is a very capable and revolutionary martial artist, being the first american to be able to train with teh Russians. He is the the Stephen Hayes of ROSS. He is also a humble man. There is no reason that he would make up a claim because he is definitely not in teh arts for fame and glory. It is unfortunate that neither of us is no longer teaching at Millersville. He has left it to a Mr. Fable. I wish I would have taken more advantage of his presence while I had the chance.


-Hikage

[bustr]

"It seems that the Dinstinguished Master of Sports Scott Sonnon “invented” the “clubBELL” just a dusted off relic of old Indian clubs originally created from native American war clubs."

"...native American war clubs."?

You do realize that these things were invented in Persia and adopted by Indian wrestlers in INDIA? Hence the term "Indian Clubs".

[Combat Cherokee]

"indian war clubs?" hahahahaha! sounds like my kind of weapon! anywaytrying to figure out which group of people created the club is crazy. Its obvious that Sonnon didnt create clubs, nor did he create the concept of swinging heavy sticks, ancient cultures of greece, and rome used heavy clubs and swinging motions to stimulate the muscles needed to weild heavy weapons such as sheild and swords and all that jazz. Sonnon just found a way to make a whole lot of money off of it, much like ab wheels or dumbells being used to condition abs, and then somebody comes out with the abroller, abrunner, ab scooter and makes money off of it. Ive been using heay bats, axe handles, heay pipes and such for similar hand/arm/wrist/shoulder/and pecks conditioning for a long time before i even new what a clubbell was. Ive never held a clubbell muchless used one, I dont see why they wouldnt help in some way. They could never be the FINAL solution for strength and conditioning, but your probably using a whole lot of different muscles that conventional weights miss. As for kettlebells, you can use heavy dumbells and get the same effects.

-C-