Help - beaten by kid

[MrPoopy]

Bill, don't let it get to you. When I first started doing BJJ there was a young kid in there that pretty much whipped me until I learned the basics.

If you don't know what you're doing, expect to lose to more experienced people, regardless of size.

[billzbjj]

Was the kid much smaller than you? how long did it take to improve?
Thanx,
bill

Bill, don't let it get to you. When I first started doing BJJ there was a young kid in there that pretty much whipped me until I learned the basics.

If you don't know what you're doing, expect to lose to more experienced people, regardless of size.

[Hikage]

; the kid seemd to have strong legs which werew stronger than my arms! also he was somehow able to t urn it into a choke.

Please excuse an ninjitsu practitioner's opinion here:

It sounds like he is executing the technique perfectly. I don't know many arts which rely on brute strength, especially grappling arts. If this kid, or anyone, uses his body correctly, he will use all the mass in his body to exploit one muscle group which in this case was your arms. I say stick withit, and learn to laugh at it. I have never personally been beated by a kid, but I have been punched, stabbed, kicked, broken, etc more times than I care to remember. I always say "I'll die a thousand times in the dojo just to live once on the street." If you won all the time, you'd never learn anything.

Food for thought: I work with 13 year olds and I'll be the first to say that they are far more intelligent and aware than we give them credit. Never before in history have we had this thing called "adolescence". They were either adults or children. This middle ground just confuses them.

-Hikage

[Waspe]

Guys, I think the arm bar he got in was a juji katami (I think thats how you spell it). It makes the most sense from the positions he described. It is quite easy to get on when your on top of a person, and the leg goes on top of the neck, and get an armbar.

The best way to learn is to lose. I myself need to learn to check my ego at the door, but i still try and learn. The only 2 guys I can't beat at my dojo are this 300lb guy and my sensei. So everyday this 300lb guy is there I grapple with him over and over and over, until sensei says lets bow in. I lose over and over and over, but each time I get better then before.

When you grapple relax, it saves energy. The only time people get really uptight is when they have no idea where to go, or scared of losing. Knowledge releaxes you. I am 16 and people at my dojo are not young either, probably 30-54 are the age range.

I wish someone else was able to kick my ass though, because I would learn more. I learn little things with this 300lb guy, but he isn't really that good, just a lot of weight, so it is hard to get him off of you. Even with bridges and stuff. I need to figure out some sort of bar or something I can get from the bottom.

Don't worry about losing even to a 13 year old. Some 13 year olds are pretty good.


About getting out of moves. Some moves you need to catch before they come on.

[Bjjexpertise@be]

You said somewher back there that the sleeper hold was just about impossible to get out of, that's the beauty of it. Once you turn to your back, he sinks his hooks into your legs so you're not going anywhere, and then the choke goes on.
When you get caughtin someone's guard don't let him get hold of any of your arms, if they do then it generally means armbar(if they use their other hand to push to the side) or triangle choke(if they try to grab hold of one of your arms while pushing your other arm back and trying to get their leg around it).
One of the first moves I learned to do from the guard is this leg lock. You take your right arm, wrap it around the kid's left leg(the areabetween the ankles and the knee), get your right leg up so you are kneeling on your left leg and have your right leg up. Then kick off and throw the right leg around the kid and spin. Both of you should be facing the opposite directions with you sitting on his butt. now just crank the leg back and you should have it.
P.S.- after typing the instructions to theleg lock, it just occured to me that it might be too hard to understand for a beginner so just ignore it.
P.P.S.-Never turn to your stomach.

[Bjjexpertise@be]

Oh yeah, It's true that they don't give teenage kids enough credit. Most people think that all teenage kids are cocky bastards that think they're tough but really aren't. News flash, ther are some kids out there who have used their youth to their advantage and are excellently conditioned and have good technique due to the fact the kids are at their learning prime in their life (I'm one of them).
Moral of the story is: never underestimate teenage kids, the kids that suck are usually theones that are cocky and keep talking about how they are going to kick your butt. The ones that are good tend to be the quiet ones that aren't as hyper.

So if you gotta pick a fight with a kid, pick a cocky kid.

[MrPoopy]

It didn't take me too long to improve. After going to class a couple times a week for a few weeks, i knew a lot of the moves to look out for and the positions to avoid. And yeah, he was a hell of a lot smaller than me. This kid might have been 13 or 14 years old and it was embarassing at first. But I let it go.

[billzbjj]

I've never really got into fights, but would be worried about anoyone now howver small! i find it amazing how effective some ogf these holds are: is there really no weay out of the sleeper (or the armbar etc) ? there must be a limit - i really cannot accept that anyone much smaller/younger than that guy coud make me tap (i'm 140 lbs 5 9 after all)
I was bothered about losing at first, but now im just interestaed, as i can see the benefits forf self-defence. Though i think its worrying if kids know how to choke: i was about to lose cnociousness when i tapped to the sleeper so i can see how danagerous it is; woudnt want a son like that for exampe! but as you say the main thing is hes not c ocky.

You said somewher back there that the sleeper hold was just about impossible to get out of, that's the beauty of it.

Oh yeah, It's true that they don't give teenage kids enough credit. Most people think that all teenage kids are cocky bastards that think they're tough but really aren't. News flash, ther are some kids out there who have used their youth to their advantage and are excellently conditioned and have good technique due to the fact the kids are at their learning prime in their life (I'm one of them).
Moral of the story is: never underestimate teenage kids, the kids that suck are usually theones that are cocky and keep talking about how they are going to kick your butt. The ones that are good tend to be the quiet ones that aren't as hyper.

So if you gotta pick a fight with a kid, pick a cocky kid.

[Tiger Claw]

mr poopy I would take that as a good sign for a good dojo. jj dosn't rely on strength but technique. Good luck bro Best thing to do in a armbar is go loose and there are ways to get out of them in a street fight . I sometimes can slip out of them when grappling in a dojo.

[MrPoopy]

Bill, atleast now you realize the strengths of BJJ, and your lack of knowledge.

It's not that you got beaten by a kid, you got beaten by a more experienced grappler.

I starting wrestling with one of my co-workers a while before I got into BJJ. At the time I didn't know he was a wrestler. He pretty much wiped the floor with me. The guy had been wrestling since juniour high. That's when I realized that if I got into a fight, I really had no idea what I would do. That's why I got involved in martial arts.

People that have no MA training or experience fighting always think they will be able to defend themselves when they need to. It takes some good beatings to get that out of your head.

[ryanhall]

Bill,

I hate to be the one to say it, but you're coming across as very immature. Stop sitting back in disbelief, drop the ego, and hit the gym. You'll improve soon enough. Good luck .

[Thai Bri]

I remember watching a Judo class once. There was only one adult training (except the instructor), and the rest were kids, some very small.

The highest rank was a brown belt, and I estimated his age to be about 14. The adult mus have been in his 20's and was ungraded.

The instructor put the two together for a match up at the end of the class. The kid tore that poor guy to pieces like he wasn't even there. This lad had obviously gone through puberty and looked fairly strong, and the adult was a bit of a pencil neck. That man took a beating. The kid dumped him in the ground time and time again with real power. That must have hurt far more than ground grappling.

Ouch.

[billzbjj]

Sorry if it sems a bit immature: dont get me wrong, i'm more impressed than anything else and it says alot for the sport. I will get training soon! as for the ego, you may be right, but i think it was dropped for me by what hapened! I do think most people would have thesame reaction to the idea of a kid overpowerng a man - even though it may not seem strange to you if you've done martial arts fro a long time.
Anyhow, thanx to everyone for the advice. Still wondering about those holds though?

Bill,

I hate to be the one to say it, but you're coming across as very immature. Stop sitting back in disbelief, drop the ego, and hit the gym. You'll improve soon enough. Good luck .

[IPON]

Sorry if it sems a bit immature: dont get me wrong, i'm more impressed than anything else and it says alot for the sport. I will get training soon! as for the ego, you may be right, but i think it was dropped for me by what hapened! I do think most people would have thesame reaction to the idea of a kid overpowerng a man - even though it may not seem strange to you if you've done martial arts fro a long time.
Anyhow, thanx to everyone for the advice. Still wondering about those holds though?

Well the lessons you learned were:

1. never underestimate/overestimate an opponent
2. grappling is a powerful style
3. ego will impede learning
4. lessons can be taught by anyone if you are willing to learn

Regarding the holds you will get your answers when you start training. But generally, if spomeone can get a lock or choke tight it is very hard to counter. What you will learn is not to get into these hold or prevent firm application.

[billzbjj]

Ok. My point about the holds is that if the opponent is below a certain size (say this guy had been 11) then surely it can be counered however tightly on. And it must be this counter you are looking for evben if the opponent is bigger?

Well the lessons you learned were:

1. never underestimate/overestimate an opponent
2. grappling is a powerful style
3. ego will impede learning
4. lessons can be taught by anyone if you are willing to learn

Regarding the holds you will get your answers when you start training. But generally, if spomeone can get a lock or choke tight it is very hard to counter. What you will learn is not to get into these hold or prevent firm application.