The Ultimate in Martial Arts

m.artist · 02-26-2004, 12:06 PM

i was talking with a family friend a few days ago who trains in brazilian juijitsu. i asked him if it was gracie and he said it was machado..who is machado?.is it before gracie or after? what's the difference? is it just as effective? he is very good. i don't know what bb degree he is but he has taught me some very useful things. i just wanted to know. if anybody can help.....

TylerDurden · 02-26-2004, 12:13 PM

I had heard of the Machado brothers before, they are Gracie trained BJJ experts. Accoring to BJJ.org the Machado's are students of Carlson Gracie Jr., along with Ralph, Relson and Ryan. There are a bunch of Machado's running around. Denis, Jean-Jacques, John, Rigan and Roger are all listed as black belts under Carlos. They are even in some B martial arts flick I saw at Blockbuster the other day.

chris davis 200 · 02-26-2004, 12:14 PM

http://www.carlosmachado.net/jiujitsu.asp

check this out - basically it stems from Gracie JJ

cheers
Chris

m.artist · 02-26-2004, 12:44 PM

thx for the info. which one si more used in nhb tournements though? and why?..is one more effective for street or nhb then the other?

pstevens · 02-26-2004, 12:54 PM

The Machados are relatives of the Gracies trained by Carlos Gracie Jr. There's a split in the BJJ community between Carlos Gracie and his youngest brother Helio. According to Helio followers, it was Helio who "invented" Gracie Jiu Jitsu. I don't know how many times I've heard Rorion, Royce and Rickson say this...

While I believe that Helio was monumental int he development of BJJ, I don't necessarily believe he "invented" it. This is due to the FACT that the techniques taught by the Carlos Gracie side are almost identical, if not the same as those used by Helio officionados. Carlos Gracie having taught Helio proves that Helio, while not the founder, generated interest and propelled jiu jitsu in Brazil.

The "Split" began when Rorion Gracie, oldest son of Helio, arrived in the United States and patented the Gracie name for his family. He then began a marketing campaign to point out that Helio had invented Gracie Jiu Jitsu, and the rest is history. By the time Carlos Jr. arrived in America it was impossible to use Gracie Jiu Jitsu, so he branded Carlos Gracie Jiu Jitsu.

Personally, I've trained under both disciplines and they don't differ so much in techniques as they do in training specifics. In the end, all that matters is that you get what you paid for.

alwaysmixwell · 02-26-2004, 05:38 PM

bjj, gracie jiu jitsu, machado jiu jitsu are all the same.. Dont get me wrong there are some variations to their submissions just by way of comfort and teaching but overall its the same.. gracie's are the ones that invented BJJ so from that theres still the basic moves but some people teach them a little differently sometimees..

alwaysmixwell · 02-26-2004, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alwaysmixwell

.. gracie's are the ones that invented BJJ

I meant to say that they learned jiu jitsu and added to it to make their own style

m.artist · 02-26-2004, 06:15 PM

hmm....alright...thx for the info guys

GrdStorm · 02-27-2004, 02:53 AM

So much you children have not pointed out...

The Machados are cousins to the Gracies. They are basically "Gracies" in the sense that their bloodline is as close as say... Royler or Renzo or Ryan or Royce or whoever. Their mother was sister to Carlos Gracie Sr. but their father had the last name Machado, hence Machado.

The split came between the two sides when Rorion had the Machado brother instructing out of either an academy or his home garage. The Machados were teaching privately on the side which Rorion disagreed with. He didn't want them to use the name Gracie Jiujitsu... although I'm sure they didn't want to either. To differentiate they coined the name Machado Jiu Jitsu which has become the second most widely known name in BJJ.

There are certain differences in the teaching and philosophical aspects of Gracie Jiu Jitsu (Helio and Rorion) and the Machado's. The Machado's are known to spread their art freely and to promote learning jiujitsu anyway possible. There are no egos to be found at a MJJ academy. Rorion on the other hand was known to hold students back and not teaching them the true techniques. Also I have learned that Helio believes in the old school BJJ way of playing guard. To Helio there is no open guard, there is only the guard (closed guard) and you only open your guard when your about to perform a submission. Very interesting.

This is not neccessarily true for all the Gracies. Only Helio and his clan. From what I know, Royler is very different and so is Rickson. Renzo and the other cousins are also awesome teachers (Renzo has 13 BBs god damnit) It is mainly Helio and Rorion that are uptight "lil bitches".

I have to say I am bias toward Machado Jiu Jitsu, I study under 2 Machado Black Belts... MJJ all the way bebe!

m.artist · 02-27-2004, 01:25 PM

so....u like machado more then gracie correct?...there is a machado school in dallas which is about and hour and a half from here but he charges like 160.00 for 2 days a week for a month..that is ridiculous

GrdStorm · 02-27-2004, 02:15 PM

That Carlos Machado. It is not ridiculous, you are getting what you pay for. There are few others IN THE WORLD more qualified to teach jiu jitsu. The Machado Brothers have put out some of the best jiu jitsu and MMA fighters. I train under Dan Gonzalez, a Carlos Machado BB and Marcos Santos a Rigan Machado BB. If my instructors are a testament to their teacher's method of teaching then hell yeah I'd pay 160 to learn Jiu Jitsu under Carlos.

m.artist · 02-27-2004, 06:24 PM

well like i said earlier back, i we (my family) is friends with a man next door to us who holds a bb in machado brazilian jiujtsu so maybe i can ask him if he's qualified to teach or not..that would be cool..combining what i know from taichi, american kenpo, and bjj...man that would be sweet..then joining wariors way afterwards...oh ya...

Uber_Tap · 02-27-2004, 11:34 PM

Just a slight correction about the Gracie/Machado link. The Machado's mother was actually a sister to one of Carlos Gracie Sr. wives, so he was their uncle by mariage.

MrPoopy · 02-28-2004, 08:05 PM

It's all the same stuff.

Combat Cherokee · 03-05-2004, 02:31 PM

I love BJJ, GJJ, MJJ, hell man even JJ, but That movie that was mentioned earlier, I dont wanna give a review out of respect for the guys, but I think everyone here owes it to the machados to at least see this movie. Its called "brazilian brawl," oh yeah and where did Pedro Sauer come into play in the whole BJJ thing? I see his adds in mags and have trained under that type of Jiu Jitsu, but never really knew the history of it.

-C-

02-26-2004, 12:06 PM	#1 (permalink)
m.artist Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 919 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	And the difference is? i was talking with a family friend a few days ago who trains in brazilian juijitsu. i asked him if it was gracie and he said it was machado..who is machado?.is it before gracie or after? what's the difference? is it just as effective? he is very good. i don't know what bb degree he is but he has taught me some very useful things. i just wanted to know. if anybody can help..... __________________ "Before you open your mouth to speak, please make sure it's an improvement upon the silence."

02-26-2004, 12:14 PM	#3 (permalink)
chris davis 200 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: UK Posts: 724 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	http://www.carlosmachado.net/jiujitsu.asp check this out - basically it stems from Gracie JJ cheers Chris __________________ "Be alert. Be alive in the moment. Don’t imagine anyone who comes and asks you to ‘push’ or ‘spar’ will keep to a format, or even stay barehanded" my ba gua teacher !!

02-26-2004, 12:44 PM	#4 (permalink)
m.artist Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 919 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	thx for the info. which one si more used in nhb tournements though? and why?..is one more effective for street or nhb then the other? __________________ "Before you open your mouth to speak, please make sure it's an improvement upon the silence."

02-26-2004, 05:38 PM	#6 (permalink)
alwaysmixwell Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 71 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	bjj, gracie jiu jitsu, machado jiu jitsu are all the same.. Dont get me wrong there are some variations to their submissions just by way of comfort and teaching but overall its the same.. gracie's are the ones that invented BJJ so from that theres still the basic moves but some people teach them a little differently sometimees.. __________________ Always Mixwell

02-26-2004, 06:15 PM	#8 (permalink)
m.artist Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 919 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	hmm....alright...thx for the info guys __________________ "Before you open your mouth to speak, please make sure it's an improvement upon the silence."

02-26-2004, 12:13 PM	#2 (permalink)
TylerDurden Registered User Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 161 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I had heard of the Machado brothers before, they are Gracie trained BJJ experts. Accoring to BJJ.org the Machado's are students of Carlson Gracie Jr., along with Ralph, Relson and Ryan. There are a bunch of Machado's running around. Denis, Jean-Jacques, John, Rigan and Roger are all listed as black belts under Carlos. They are even in some B martial arts flick I saw at Blockbuster the other day.

02-26-2004, 12:54 PM	#5 (permalink)
pstevens Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 461 Groans: 1 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	The Machados are relatives of the Gracies trained by Carlos Gracie Jr. There's a split in the BJJ community between Carlos Gracie and his youngest brother Helio. According to Helio followers, it was Helio who "invented" Gracie Jiu Jitsu. I don't know how many times I've heard Rorion, Royce and Rickson say this... While I believe that Helio was monumental int he development of BJJ, I don't necessarily believe he "invented" it. This is due to the FACT that the techniques taught by the Carlos Gracie side are almost identical, if not the same as those used by Helio officionados. Carlos Gracie having taught Helio proves that Helio, while not the founder, generated interest and propelled jiu jitsu in Brazil. The "Split" began when Rorion Gracie, oldest son of Helio, arrived in the United States and patented the Gracie name for his family. He then began a marketing campaign to point out that Helio had invented Gracie Jiu Jitsu, and the rest is history. By the time Carlos Jr. arrived in America it was impossible to use Gracie Jiu Jitsu, so he branded Carlos Gracie Jiu Jitsu. Personally, I've trained under both disciplines and they don't differ so much in techniques as they do in training specifics. In the end, all that matters is that you get what you paid for.

02-27-2004, 02:53 AM	#9 (permalink)
GrdStorm Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 121 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	So much you children have not pointed out... The Machados are cousins to the Gracies. They are basically "Gracies" in the sense that their bloodline is as close as say... Royler or Renzo or Ryan or Royce or whoever. Their mother was sister to Carlos Gracie Sr. but their father had the last name Machado, hence Machado. The split came between the two sides when Rorion had the Machado brother instructing out of either an academy or his home garage. The Machados were teaching privately on the side which Rorion disagreed with. He didn't want them to use the name Gracie Jiujitsu... although I'm sure they didn't want to either. To differentiate they coined the name Machado Jiu Jitsu which has become the second most widely known name in BJJ. There are certain differences in the teaching and philosophical aspects of Gracie Jiu Jitsu (Helio and Rorion) and the Machado's. The Machado's are known to spread their art freely and to promote learning jiujitsu anyway possible. There are no egos to be found at a MJJ academy. Rorion on the other hand was known to hold students back and not teaching them the true techniques. Also I have learned that Helio believes in the old school BJJ way of playing guard. To Helio there is no open guard, there is only the guard (closed guard) and you only open your guard when your about to perform a submission. Very interesting. This is not neccessarily true for all the Gracies. Only Helio and his clan. From what I know, Royler is very different and so is Rickson. Renzo and the other cousins are also awesome teachers (Renzo has 13 BBs god damnit) It is mainly Helio and Rorion that are uptight "lil bitches". I have to say I am bias toward Machado Jiu Jitsu, I study under 2 Machado Black Belts... MJJ all the way bebe! __________________ chesst = loser

02-27-2004, 01:25 PM	#10 (permalink)
m.artist Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 919 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	so....u like machado more then gracie correct?...there is a machado school in dallas which is about and hour and a half from here but he charges like 160.00 for 2 days a week for a month..that is ridiculous __________________ "Before you open your mouth to speak, please make sure it's an improvement upon the silence."

02-27-2004, 02:15 PM	#11 (permalink)
GrdStorm Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 121 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	That Carlos Machado. It is not ridiculous, you are getting what you pay for. There are few others IN THE WORLD more qualified to teach jiu jitsu. The Machado Brothers have put out some of the best jiu jitsu and MMA fighters. I train under Dan Gonzalez, a Carlos Machado BB and Marcos Santos a Rigan Machado BB. If my instructors are a testament to their teacher's method of teaching then hell yeah I'd pay 160 to learn Jiu Jitsu under Carlos. __________________ chesst = loser

02-27-2004, 06:24 PM	#12 (permalink)
m.artist Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 919 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	well like i said earlier back, i we (my family) is friends with a man next door to us who holds a bb in machado brazilian jiujtsu so maybe i can ask him if he's qualified to teach or not..that would be cool..combining what i know from taichi, american kenpo, and bjj...man that would be sweet..then joining wariors way afterwards...oh ya... __________________ "Before you open your mouth to speak, please make sure it's an improvement upon the silence."

02-27-2004, 11:34 PM	#13 (permalink)
Uber_Tap Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 142 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Just a slight correction about the Gracie/Machado link. The Machado's mother was actually a sister to one of Carlos Gracie Sr. wives, so he was their uncle by mariage.

02-28-2004, 08:05 PM	#14 (permalink)
MrPoopy Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Ks Posts: 782 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	It's all the same stuff. __________________ MrPoopy

03-05-2004, 02:31 PM	#15 (permalink)
Combat Cherokee Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Maryland Posts: 48 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Donte get me wrong I love BJJ, GJJ, MJJ, hell man even JJ, but That movie that was mentioned earlier, I dont wanna give a review out of respect for the guys, but I think everyone here owes it to the machados to at least see this movie. Its called "brazilian brawl," oh yeah and where did Pedro Sauer come into play in the whole BJJ thing? I see his adds in mags and have trained under that type of Jiu Jitsu, but never really knew the history of it. -C- __________________ *Christian, American, Heterosexual, Pro-gun, Conservative...any questions?*

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