ROYCE GRACIE PRIDE CHAMPION

[L3FTH00K]

I was bored and watch the SAK vs Royce Gracie fight again the othernight. I asked myself what would have happen if SAK was not in the tournament. How far would have Royce Gracie have gotten? Would he have won? I know it's a long shot but remember Royce had no time limits in his bouts. He may have not been the favorite but Royce could have played defense against strong muscled fighters like KERR, FUJITA, and Coleman and eventually tire them out. I dont know wht do you guys think?

[david a]

Royce may have been able to beat one of them and go on, but he would not make it past the second one. Three fights a night/ or even two, are an impossibility for Royce nowadays.. the competition is alot tougher than severn vs. Royce days.... so, no, he wouldn't be champion. Even Sakuraba couldn't do it if I do recall...

[Karlinhos]

it's a possibility. royce still has the best defense i've seen in nhb, so who knows.

sak couldn't do it... he hung with igor pretty well, but was just too tired from the fight with royce.

[Patterson]

Oh common guys... He can't beat Sakuraba but he can beat Igor and Coleman? Thats pretty funny.

[Tiger69]

Royce would definately beat Coleman, Kerr and Vovchanchin. He might not beat all those guys in one night but he'll certainly beat them in fresh condition. Remember Royce gave Sakuraba the toughest fight ever despite the 5 year absence. Also the foot injury forced him to quit the fight while he was clearly dominating. Royce will be back!

[L3FTH00K]

Common Patterson we all know that match ups make fights. According to your logic Takada could have beaten Igor V. because Igor lost to Coleman and Coleman lost to Takada.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Some of you guys just don't get it. You actually believe that Royce will "tire" out Coleman and Vovchanchin and catch them. He will get the crap punched out of him whether he's standing or if he pulls guard on them. He will probably get tired before they do struggling to avoid blows and hold them in his guard. Patterson is correct. Sakuraba did way better against Igor V than Royce could have done fresh.

[Domingo]

I'm sorry - but the way the brackets were set up, I see almost NO WAY for Royce to have won the Pride GP.
Assuming he got by Sakuraba (even quickly), he still had to face Vovchanchin and Coleman. Let's just assume that it was Goodridge, Kerr, or Fujita, too.
I think Royce's best odds were actually against Coleman. Mark still isn't a Grade-A finisher and I think that he stands the best chance of getting caught in a submssion from the bottom. He's also the worst striker in the event, so I don't think he's a KO threat from the standing position.
Vovchanchin vs. Royce is a nearly unwinnable match from Royce IMO. I see alsmot no way for Royce to get him down without either eating knees or just getting thrown off. Igor is pretty good from a tie-up, as can be seen from his other fights where he simply tosses opponents away. He's even better at defending shoots, where he knees foes into oblivion. The ony times he gets taken down cleanly is when an opponent is able to get totally under his center of gravity and lift him - something Royce won't be able to do. I see Royce's only chance being via some type of standing submission (flying armbar, dunckunder into a choke, etc.) - something he's never done before. Finally, I'd say Igor's stamina is as good as anyone in the game's. I've never seen him sucking wind, even in tournaments where he's fought 4 times in a night. He's always relaxed, and conserves himself well on the ground. Royce's can't simply hope to "tire" him.
Goodridge is a similar fight, but I can see Royce actually getting Gary down and submitting him. I won't be easy, and I think Royce will take punishment in doing so.
Fujita is a question mark. He seems to have one of the biggest "wills to win" in the game. No matter what happens, he goes forward and seems to wear on opponents like no other fighter. Admittedly, 2 of his fights have been kind of weird, but who's to say that it wasn't his style and ability to forge ahead that caused both Shamrock and Kerr to virtually give up. I can't really speculate how this fight would go, but I'm certain of this much - Fujita should get the takedown, and he also should have enough stamina to go full speed for the first round.
I think Kerr poses one of the biggest problems because of his ability to keep the fight standing, and his ability to strike. He's not Vovchanchin or Goodridge, but Royce has almost no chance whatsoever of getting him down if he doesn't want to go. If Kerr comes in focused, then Royce is in for it. If Kerr comes in less than focused (his one major weakness), Royce might be able to exploit this. If nothing else, when it all hits the fan, Kerr is probably going to eventually shoot for a takedown out of habit.
Anyway - of the guys in the finals of the GP event I think Shoji's the only one Royce *should* defeat. He gave Renzo trouble, but Royce seems to force people to fight his fight better than Renzo does.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Shoji has never been submitted and he has fought in every PRIDE. The guy has gone the distance with Vovchanchin, Coleman, Renzo, Braga, and Mezger and has not been KO'd or subbed. Not to mention the beating he gave Wallid. No way Royce could beat Shoji. Shoji is kind of an unsung hero. He is an amazing fighter who consistently does well and should be considered a top middleweight (if he lost that baby fat he'd easily be 180-190).

[Tiger69]

Miaygi, what the hell are you talking about? Shoji would not stand a chance against Royce at all!! Give me a break for christ sake! The guy is tough but no way he is in the league of Royce. Let's not be ridiculous.

[Mr. Miyagi]

This forum has had it's ups and downs but through it all, it has always had it's fair share of Gracie ass lickers. Shoji has actually done a lot more than Royce against quality opponents. Take a look at their records over the past three years or so. Royce would have a very small chance of beating Shoji but most likely would get his ass kicked.

[Domingo]

Actually Shoji's a really good fighter, with very few losses and lots of high profile fights - but he's also a VERY poor finisher. Royce has never really had a problem closing the distance without getting tagged, so I see no reason why he coudln't do the same thing to Shoji. Royce also has a very tight guard for the most part, so I don't see Shoji able to stand up and shake him off the way he did to Renzo. I feel Royce would've simply attacked him much the way he did Sakuraba and then when they clinched he'd either fall into guard or actually succeed in taking Shoji down.
I see several ways for Royce to win, but very few for Shoji. His only wins that weren't by decision (usually controvercial, no less) have been against a tomato can rookie at the last Pride, and his beating of Ismail. The Ismail fight was tailor made for him because of Wallid's absolutely awful closing skills. He gets disheartened and tries to be "macho," which only leads to guys like Shoji and Takahashi teeing off on him.
Shoji's a good fighter, but how is he actually going to BEAT Royce? With no time limits, the way Royce specified, I'm pretty sure Royce would have him beaten in under 20 minutes.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Yeah, I see, Royce could beat anyone NTL but in a TL situation they will "hide" and get a decision, right? I think I understand now.
If Shoji made it through all those monsters that he fought without getting KO'd or finished, what the hell is Royce going to catch him with. Royce can't take him down, he'll sit in the guard if Shoji chooses to go there, and he'll wait for a triangle or armbar that won't happen. In the meantime he'll eat a lot of punches. No way Royce would beat Shoji.

[Tiger69]

Miyagi san,
Shoji is the most overrated fighter right next to Sakuraba. Deal with it!

[Ronin]

Tiger69:

You mean, after Rickson, right?