it's all how you train...

[kiddbjj]

would anyone else agree that the training methods used at a school are of more importance in making a person efficient and effective than the specific techniques. (within reason of course)
in my experience a vast majority of class time in some schools is often spent practicing in ways that are either counterproductive or just plain crappy from a skill acquisition perspective.
what do you guys think?

(my experience for those interested: 5 years kung fu (not anymore), 4 months BJJ &, 4 months thai box style with self defence orientation)

[gracilva]

Sorry mate but i have to disagree.
I know guys that havn't trained a day in their lives and would rip your spine out.
Others i know have trained ten yrs, multiple styles, books, seminars
but as soon as shit goes down they piss their pants.
so i get where you are coming from but i.m.o. it's something you are born with
or rough expiriences teach you.

[ChunGi]

i dont really agree or disagree. In my experience (6 yrs. Taekwon-do. 4 yrs Systema (russian Counter defensive fighting), 2 Yr.s JeetkunDo, 1 Yr. Kungfu ,1 Yr. Mui Thia) I would say practising techinques is very important to the deliverance of the tenique in a real life situation. I have learned through experience that seteling into a certain style will hinder proformance. I spar with many different skill level people from many different styles and can say that fighting a kick boxer is much difernet from fighting a kunfu student. Ok kinda off topioc but, what i am trying to say is that for u to become a good fighter u must understand the deliverance of ur technique and why it is done the way it is done. in order for you to incapacitate a rival u have to be able to place strikes at key pionts, if u have no control of ur technique u will not be able to effectively dispatch ur opposition. I am not old or wise. But have alot of fight experience. THE MOST important tool in fighting is mental training. This spans far from the infamous use of Chi as a line of defense and offensive weapon, but also knowing how to take a hit and the relization that u may be hurt for the greater good (ex: being severly cut on the arm or hand in order to gain controll of an attackers weapon, versus being stabbed or partially decapitated if u do not defend your self). Anywho i am rambling and could keep going if i had teh time but dont. If u have any questions about my piont of view on combativs please ask or pm me. Hopefully i answered ur question.
Respectfully

[Nick]

It's very possible for a TKD person to beat, say, a MT person, but I would say that TKD person would have to have exceptional talent. MT's technique is superior, more practical, etc., so it has the edge. Is it invincible? No, but it does have an advantage over TKD.

Later...

[Thai Bri]

In general it is true to sa that most arts have very similar techniques. A punch is just a punch etc. But the way those techniques are trained is a key factor. Do you punch thin air all the time? If so, don't be surprised if a Thai Boxing punch is 1,000% more effective than yours.

[kiddbjj]

sorry guys i should have been a bit clearer with what i was trying to say.
Firstly I agree that the mental side of self defence/fighting/surviving etc is the most important element. and yes some people are just born with it.

Aside from that what i meant about "how u train" is that the drills and methods your school uses have to be task specific. for example, when I did kung fu we spend a majority of class time striking the air (often in horse stance), practicing forms (again against the air) doing basic kicking and punching combos from a fighting stance (yep against the air) and then doing application training of techniques from the forms with a compliant partner. of course we also sparred every lesson but i felt as though a was making up my own way of sparing looking back on this because the class training we did had no overlap for sparring except for a few bits of footwork and a minimal number of strikes covered in the forms and basics.
so what does this ramble mean...
well i think that the case put forward for pad/bag drills by styles like jeet kune do and muay thai are definately worth taking notice of. Instead of learning a form and spending six months on that, and even if the form has practical techs in it, i would still say that learning a handful of focus mitt and heavy bag drills done full power and full speed with a knowledgeable pad holder will offer you FAR better and tangible results in that same six month period. Some of the jeet k d and muay thai drills i have seen and tried are just brilliant because you have to work your ass of and get used to throwing hard shots on target and on the move. I'd much rather know 10 great focus mitt/thai pad drills than ten forms any day of the week. but that's just my opinion and my experience.
what do you guys think?

[Thai Bri]

I think that you have more brains than a million so called Kung Fu Masters....

[gracilva]

Originally Posted by kiddbjj

sorry guys i should have been a bit clearer with what i was trying to say.
Firstly I agree that the mental side of self defence/fighting/surviving etc is the most important element. and yes some people are just born with it.

Aside from that what i meant about "how u train" is that the drills and methods your school uses have to be task specific. for example, when I did kung fu we spend a majority of class time striking the air (often in horse stance), practicing forms (again against the air) doing basic kicking and punching combos from a fighting stance (yep against the air) and then doing application training of techniques from the forms with a compliant partner. of course we also sparred every lesson but i felt as though a was making up my own way of sparing looking back on this because the class training we did had no overlap for sparring except for a few bits of footwork and a minimal number of strikes covered in the forms and basics.
so what does this ramble mean...
well i think that the case put forward for pad/bag drills by styles like jeet kune do and muay thai are definately worth taking notice of. Instead of learning a form and spending six months on that, and even if the form has practical techs in it, i would still say that learning a handful of focus mitt and heavy bag drills done full power and full speed with a knowledgeable pad holder will offer you FAR better and tangible results in that same six month period. Some of the jeet k d and muay thai drills i have seen and tried are just brilliant because you have to work your ass of and get used to throwing hard shots on target and on the move. I'd much rather know 10 great focus mitt/thai pad drills than ten forms any day of the week. but that's just my opinion and my experience.
what do you guys think?

Spot on!, i completely agree.

[ChunGi]

haveing sparrred many different styles of fighters i would definatly say that practising a technique has saved me from serious injury. On monday i was with my sparring group doing full contact, no pads (sept gloves), takedowns, grappling, anything alowd (sept nut kickin) sparring, with the other Leader of the group (after the session was over). He had taken me down with a judo style throw landing me squard on my back. Instinctivly i did a backwards roll backinto fighting stance. after watching our fight on tape i realized that i was abotu a 1/4 of a second from a serious. My partner had done a flying knee onto the spot where my head had been prior to the roll. This was automatic due to the years of doing rolls while i attended my schools kids class (when i was 8-12 yrs old). I had not practised these techniques for at least 4 years but it still came automatically during my fight. I use practised techniques such as a inner forarm block constantly during sparring, sometimes as a strike against a attackers leg or vital piont between there hamstrang and quad (otehrwise known as the worst charlie horse of ur natural life). I leanred to deliver these techniques by practising agianst thin air. I agree with the above in that u develope ur own sparring style. You do this becasue each person reacts differntly to a opponent. Your reaction will differ becasue of experiences u have had durring other situations. For instance i only stay in a acually stance while dellivering a strike. I do this to avoid my footwork being read. I also constant change stnaces in order to chagne my black versus different strikes. for instacne alowing me to block and close range into a persons kidneys or back of there head if i am behind there arm

[Thai Bri]

And? And?

[HuSanYan]

thin air training is the way to go,
Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon-Do is the stylee

[sherwinc]

Originally Posted by Thai Bri

In general it is true to sa that most arts have very similar techniques. A punch is just a punch etc. But the way those techniques are trained is a key factor. Do you punch thin air all the time? If so, don't be surprised if a Thai Boxing punch is 1,000% more effective than yours.

You are extremely wrong!!!!

We collide our punch in Wooden Dummy, while Muay Thai only hit their punch in Punching Bag (which is wrong)

Note:
Wooden Dummy has three solid hard arms to smash your forearm to pain....

while....

Muay Thai punching bags is.... no arms..... and that punching bag doesnt hit back..... and the worst of all is - the bag is hanged within the ceiling..... why????? Do you think your opponent will gonna hanged for you??????????

[sherwinc]

Originally Posted by Nick

It's very possible for a TKD person to beat, say, a MT person, but I would say that TKD person would have to have exceptional talent. MT's technique is superior, more practical, etc., so it has the edge. Is it invincible? No, but it does have an advantage over TKD.

Later...

Since Tae Kwon Do and Karate is not practical and not applicable for todays world with full of jungles.......

[Sanitarium]

Originally Posted by sherwinc

Muay Thai punching bags is.... no arms..... and that punching bag doesnt hit back..... and the worst of all is - the bag is hanged within the ceiling..... why????? Do you think your opponent will gonna hanged for you??????????

do you think your opponent is gonna stay still and keep his arms in the same position like your wooden dummy?

convinced????

[sherwinc]

Originally Posted by Sanitarium

do you think your opponent is gonna stay still and keep his arms in the same position like your wooden dummy?

convinced????

yes, cause that 3 arms - an oncoming attack mostly to defend on the 3 triangular choices (in able for the bridge forearm to feel - prior to coil) in a scientific strategy where more angles and circles to switch if not driven by straight line short distance hand attacks...... be able to withstand the pain cause by smashing of forearm against 3 arms of wooden dummy.....

and what about this punching bag???????

Note:
Wooden Dummy is a best tool for training compare to your hanged punching bag......