Gracie vs Shamrock

[CKD]

MMA weekly "It shocked the thousands in attendance at Rumble on the Rock this weekend. There they were again. A Gracie and a Shamrock talking smack in the middle of a cage. It was a scene out of 1993, when older brother Ken talked with Cesar's cousin, Royce about who was better.
This weekend the Rumble on the Rock flew in Cesar Gracie and Frank Shamrock to announce their upcoming fight in August. There was plenty of trash talk between the two fighters.
In one exchange Ceasar Gracie said "We all know what happens when a Gracie faces a Shamrock, Gracie's ALWAYS win"...which drew ah's and oh's from the crowd. Shamrock then followed up with "You sure like to talk boy for someone who has never fought in the cage before..."
Those were just a couple of exchanges between the two fighters. This fight was supposed to happen before. World Extreme Cagefighting had the two verbally committed and Gracie signed the contract. For whatever reason Shamrock didn't end up signing to fight. Now this fight is being talked about, possibly on pay per view in the first weekend of August. Gracie still is waiting.
Cesar told MMAWeekly "I flew to Hawaii to sign a contract. I did my end of the bargain, but I still don't think Frank has signed. I will believe it when I see it."
This seems interesting. Cesar has not fought before but Shamrock still seems like he will not fight him. Cesar has a great group of fighters, such as Gistillo and Nick Diaz who has never done any serious crosstraining. He just says GJJ tries to cover most aspects of the fight, but I guess he just concentrated on GJJ takedowns and strikes and was able to do good. I guess it makes sense, wrestling takedowns are the same as bjj's but wrestler are better at it because the concentrate on it, GJJ has the same strikes as MT but MT fighters are better because they concentrate on it. So he probaly just concentrated on those GJJ techniques so he did not have to crosstrain as much. Anyways even though Cesar has never had a professional fight before, judging by his staple of fighters he knwos something. Shamrock seems scared of signing the contract. Frank actually said in an interview "The Gracies are dead" as in they are no longer a dominant force in MMA. But I agree with Fightsport by saying "by looking at there recent matches, they seem anything but. How do you think the fight will go?

[IPON]

Interesting, but why is shamrock not fighting a more experienced Gracie? I assume Ceasar has a sport record just not a NHB or VT record

[akja]

Cesar's been around. He and Ralph started out teaching in Dublin ,Ca. Ralf has gooten big as an Instructor with several schools up and down the coast and Cesar I think just has 1 school in Pleasant Hill. I think Castillo is Ralphs student. But Cesar is doing a good job teaching MMA.

Ken Shamrock is going to fight Kimo on the 6/19. This is Kimos chance to prove his BJJ blackbelt under Joe Moreira.

[CKD]

No Gastillos part of Cesar Gracies team. The reason he is not fighting a more experienced Gracie is probaly because he would lose. He has trash talked the Gracies, but after the recent matches he has quited down. A lot of people used to agree with him that the Gracies were not a dominant force and could not handle the newer mma fighters but then the Gracies proved otherwise.

[Mr. Miyagi]

The Gracies aren't dead and they are still competitive, but none of them are really top 10 material. The don't fight and win regularly in a big promotion, they fight rarely (except for Renzo) and avoid the best fighters.
Frank could probably beat any Gracie but then again, remember his fight with Jeremy Horn. Horn was dominating the fight until he gassed and Frank took over. Also consider that Frank's winning streak never really ended, and he probably wouldn't want to fight Cesar Gracie unless there was bigger money involved.
Cesar Gracie needs to earn his stripes with some other fights first. Frank is a high profile fighter who should come to PRIDE and fight people like Bustamante, Henderson, Silva, Rampage, and Sak. Maybe even Belfort in the UFC. He said that he doubted Vitor's heart and that he would break him. If not, then he should retire and stop talking like he's still in the game.

[akja]

Originally Posted by Mr. Miyagi

Cesar Gracie needs to earn his stripes with some other fights first. Frank is a high profile fighter who should come to PRIDE and fight people like Bustamante, Henderson, Silva, Rampage, and Sak. Maybe even Belfort in the UFC. He said that he doubted Vitor's heart and that he would break him. If not, then he should retire and stop talking like he's still in the game.

Its hard to say where he should start out at. We haven't seen him fight. but we do know that he's a good trainer.

Frank hasn't been active enough to put on a pedistool. Frank ditched the UFC right when it "could of" gotten interesting. Frank and Cesar have exchanged words and thats enough to justify their fight.

[CKD]

I would not say the Gracies have avoided big name fighters. They all fought Sakuraba who was considered one of the best fighters, Royce fought Yoshida, and now Royler will fight Genki Sudo I want too hear your opinions on that also.

[shadowkiller]

Yeah genki sudo is going to be a pretty tough fight. Hes such a great grappler, and has kept getting better and better.

[DJColdfusion]

Frank verbally accepted the fight once before and then never signed a contract.

This is the second time someone has tried to put this fight together and Frank keeps on showing up to press conferences or events for the fight and does his part to talk some trash . . . but he still hasn't signed a contract.

The fact is that Shamrock wants the "exposure" but he doesn't want to be exposed.

He won't sign and the fight won't happen.

[Mr. Miyagi]

BTW, it's 'pedestal', not 'pedistool'.

Who knows what they're going to pay Frank? He's a big name fighter, he shouldn't be paid peanuts. Frank did some big fights before he retired his belt. Maybe Jackson and Lober weren't that tough, but he beat Tito and Zinoviev. And after he retired, Tito stayed on as the king for so many fights.
Every fighter talks trash. Rickson talks so much trash in his interviews. Last interview he said there was nothing special about Noguiera's abilities.

People mention Frank's losses to Bas and Funaki once in a while, but that has nothing to do with the Frank Shamrock that was the UFC champ. He was very inexperienced back then and I think he would have destroyed Funaki and beat Bas if they had fought again later.

IMO, from the active Gracie fighters, Royce is the only one really fit to fight Frank. Renzo would probably get KO'd. I think Busta could beat Frank though.

Is Royler's fight going to be a normal fight or is he going to insist on no judge's decision? If that's so, we'll see Sudo sitting in Royler's guard for 30 minutes with Sudo getting a few punches in every now and then. No thanks.

[akja]

Frank deserves to be paid well, thats for sure. But as for who he fights, I think he decided that for us.

The Gracies are all so differant its really hardly to compare them.

[CKD]

I think Royler will do o.k. But I really want too see Royler against a wrestler of muay thai rather than fighting another BJJ expert. If Sudo does good against Royler he will get a shot at Rickson apparently So this will be interesting. Royler is more of the Sub grappler of the family rather than the vale tudo fighter. Probaly why Sudo chose him.

[amadeus]

Originally Posted by CKD

No Gastillos part of Cesar Gracies team. The reason he is not fighting a more experienced Gracie is probaly because he would lose. He has trash talked the Gracies, but after the recent matches he has quited down. A lot of people used to agree with him that the Gracies were not a dominant force and could not handle the newer mma fighters but then the Gracies proved otherwise.

1) i think frank would beat any of the gracies out there fighting today. if not with his technique then becuz he's a cardio monster and would push the fight past the point of exhaustion for any of the gracies. remember also that shamrock has KO power so that's a problem for gracie too.

2) i don't think frank will ever fight again. he talks about it to keep his name in the light but time is quickly passing him by. he's becoming much like rickson.... everyone thinks he's unbeatable cuz of word of mouth and past achievements but is obsolete today.

[amadeus]

Originally Posted by Mr. Miyagi

People mention Frank's losses to Bas and Funaki once in a while, but that has nothing to do with the Frank Shamrock that was the UFC champ. He was very inexperienced back then and I think he would have destroyed Funaki and beat Bas if they had fought again later.

IMO, from the active Gracie fighters, Royce is the only one really fit to fight Frank. Renzo would probably get KO'd. I think Busta could beat Frank though.

1) bas was also very inexperienced in the 3 fights he had with frank. he didn't even start to learn grappleing till after he lost twice to frank's brother. so don't use that as an escuse. i still think a healthy bas would tool frank.

2) don 't kid yerself. royce ain't gonna beat anyone that isn't a tomato can ever again. hell he couldn't even tap takada.

[CKD]

Oh yeah we all so what a tomato can Yoshida was with his fight with Silva. Was it me or did he give Silva a lot harder time than most other fighters