Wrestling as a martial art

[pstevens]

Despite criticism in the past, wrestling has faired better than most martial arts, excluding BJJ in MMA competiiton. In fact, wrestlers dominated the NHB scene for a while. On an amatuer level, wrestling continues to be the only real threat against BJJ or Muay Thai.

A better assessment of how effective wrestling (modernized NHB wrestling that is) has been exists within local NHB tournaments or undercard fights. These types of fights consists of fighters from college with wrestling background, some with BJJ skills or boxing, etc AND are more accurate representations of the effectiveness and differences between fighting techniques. At the professional level, everyone knows everything, so it’s not so much about style, but training and atheleticism... Even so, wrestlers have done relatively well, both American and Japanese in the the NHB circuits.

It’s true, wrestling has been adapted to many combat grappling clubs which utilized a mix of BJJ, Judo, etc... But the base of wrestling is fundamental to good grappling. Wrestlers have a very good base and I’ve never seen a wrestler get swept. In one of the earlier KOK fights, I think 2 or three, a wrestler made short work of a BJJ black belt. I was at a local bar that holds MMA matches and a wrestler won 2 fights in a row against a blue belt and 2 stripes white belt... So it can be argued that wrestling, in some regard has caught up to many martial arts if applied correctly.

[jubaji]

Well, I'm not gonna argue with this one!

[JaredExtreme]

Wrestling is good for control and maintaining a good base. However most wrestlers do not train enough submissions.

I have seen wrestlers come into BJJ schools and easily submitted because of mainly two things:

1. Many of their takedowns leave their neck open, which exposes them to guillotine chokes.

2. They are not used to someone trying to submit them from the bottom and do not know how to respond to the guard.

Despite these weaknesses I think wrestling is still much more effective than traditional martial arts and when a wrestler begins learning BJJ they are very tough to beat.

[CKD]

The main weaknesses of wrestling are no submissions, lacks some basic position like it has no guard, little of mount, no backmount, no knee on stomach, and others. Its main positions are the turtle, north south and side mount and thats about it. The rules also advocate turning your back.

[pstevens]

Originally Posted by CKD

The main weaknesses of wrestling are no submissions, lacks some basic position like it has no guard, little of mount, no backmount, no knee on stomach, and others. Its main positions are the turtle, north south and side mount and thats about it. The rules also advocate turning your back.

Well, I'm not talking about someone training wrestling just for the sake of wrestling another person... As you can see for yourself in NHB type tournaments, many wrestlers can adapt to positions... The weaknesses of wrestling are relative to the individual and his specific endeavor.

These days, anyone who is involved in the fight game knows something of the guard or mount... The guard isn't nearly as effective anymore, except to hold on for dear life. I have seen anyone fight effectively from the guard since Royce Gracie, and that was when no one knew what it was. I have seen any BJJ guys sweep a wrestler from the guard. I have never seen the knee on stomach used in NHB before either...

Yes, wrestling advocates turning your back, but that helped me more than it hindered me as a beginner... The reason being, I didn't panick with someone on my back, and I knew how to move with someone on my back. Regardless of your discipline, someone will take your back at some point...

Submissions being the only real downfall of wrestling, wrestling is a solid martial art. Blend it with some boxing and submissions and you've got some of the best MMA fighters out there, Randy Coulture, Don Frye, Mark Coleman, Mark Kerr, etc....

[CKD]

The guard is not utilized well by a lot of nhb people. But if you are taken down it is MUCH safer to put them into your guard than to let them achieve side control. But the guard is used well by Sperry, Noguiera, who tapped Coleman from the guard and other bjj players. The knee on stomach is used a bit by bjj fighters in mma but a lot less than other people.

[TylerDurden]

I don't know of anyone with much real training at all who doubts that wrestling is effective. It's very effective, sure there are a few bad habits developed on the goals of wrestling but a little training and practice overcomes those. Wrestlers generally have very good balance, and positional awareness. Aside from just technique wrestlers are usually (if they are nto too far removed from it) in very good shape and very strong for their size. That as much as anything makes them a tough opponent, if you don't stay relaxed and cannot work from the bottom a wrestler will own you big time.

[jubaji]

This thread is great!

[TylerDurden]

jubaji likes a topic about wrestling? Go figure.

Actually one of the main reasons I started BJJ and Judo was I was fairly certain if I got into a fight with a wrestler that I would be in alot of trouble. You wanna fight a grappler, you better learn how to grapple eh.