Tire of Judo vs BJJ threads...

pstevens · 06-30-2004, 01:12 PM

I keep hearing BJJ people brag about going to Judo gyms and tapping out black belts, etc... So let me just address this situation one last time.

First of all, judo is judo, not BJJ. The rules are different and so is the emphasis. Most judo clubs emphasize throwing. In fact, at some clubs, once you hit the ground, the match is over. In contrast, submissions is the mainstay of BJJ. That's what you train to do in BJJ. So if you're engaged in a submissions match BJJ-style, ofcourse a BJJ guy should win. If you want to randori judo-style, I'll bet the Judo guy throws you on your can. That Rickson defeated judo guys at a local club, one after another, means only one thing — BJJ will win most of the time in a submissions match.

People act like this was the first time judo has been beaten by submissions. Before Olympic Judo, Kano's Kudokan was defeated by a grappling style of judo... Did this stop judo from moving in its own direction... NO... As I've said before, judo is judo and that's what it intends to be, NOT BJJ, NOT karate, etc... Judo is a sport that focuses on throwing manuevers and self-defense tactics. Kano never intended judo to become a ground fighting system, hence, many of these techniques were eliminated.

You should also examine the environment in which these two styles evolved. Judo evolved from a culture that was moving away from fuedalism... Japan is considered one of the safest places to live. In Japan, martialism is considered barbaric and a thing of the past. Hence, Kano was merely preserving a peice of Japan's history, but through a sporting aspect. This is also true of martial arts in countries like the US. We don't fight in the streets, we train for sport and self-defense. Fighting is frowned upon by the public.

In contrast, Brazil is has been a lawless country with much violence. Fighting in the streets was not unusual... But of recently, things have improved... Hence, BJJ has become more sport oriented.

In a NHB environment, BJJ TECHNIQUES will have a slight advantage because of its background in Vale Tudo, but the most important thing is the fighter's preparation and skill level. I've don BJJ for 7 years and I'm NOT a fighter... I'm a solid grappler as it pertains to the rules of BJJ. Being in BJJ doesn't make me a "killer."

So the next time you vist a karate,Muay Thai or judo gym, I'd adise you show some humility.

**Thai Bri** · 06-30-2004, 02:22 PM

Yeah, right. Lets get tired of a certain kind of thread and then write another one.......

Durrrrrrrrr.

CKD · 06-30-2004, 03:00 PM

I agree with the BJJ vs Judo threads. They are basically the same thing with different emphasis. If you look at old Kosen Judo vids you will see many techniques that are suppossedly invented by some Brazilian being done by some 1,000 year old Japanese guy. But Kano did intend for his style to be self defense and he did not take out the dangerous elements such as leg locks that we thought he would. Here is an article on that matter. http://members.lycos.co.uk/fight/judo/judo.html

pstevens · 06-30-2004, 04:18 PM

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Originally Posted by CKD

I agree with the BJJ vs Judo threads. They are basically the same thing with different emphasis. If you look at old Kosen Judo vids you will see many techniques that are suppossedly invented by some Brazilian being done by some 1,000 year old Japanese guy. But Kano did intend for his style to be self defense and he did not take out the dangerous elements such as leg locks that we thought he would. Here is an article on that matter. http://members.lycos.co.uk/fight/judo/judo.html

Wow... That was a good article. I'm also of the opinion that BJJ is merely Judo that evolved in another culture and NOT jujistu... As I've said before, contrary to what the Brasilians say, that BJJ came from India, BJJ came from Judo and developed into what it is today. Even Judo IS NOT jujitsu! Judo is an art that came about from aspects of jujitsu.

CKD · 06-30-2004, 05:17 PM

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Originally Posted by pstevens

Wow... That was a good article. I'm also of the opinion that BJJ is merely Judo that evolved in another culture and NOT jujistu... As I've said before, contrary to what the Brasilians say, that BJJ came from India, BJJ came from Judo and developed into what it is today. Even Judo IS NOT jujitsu! Judo is an art that came about from aspects of jujitsu.

I agree. I believe that everything from BJJ is from judo. But as judo became an Olympic sport and ne-waza became less practiced by judokas people started mistaking that the Brazilians created these. But at least the techniques were preserved. An interesting fact is that Maeda taught another person besides Helio. That person claims to have changed nothing unlike Helio and his students compete in the Mundials. But the reason that they called it Brazilian Jiu-jitsu instead of Brazilian Judo is because Maeda called it Kano Jiu-jitsu and that is how it was known in Brazil.

Mr. Miyagi · 06-30-2004, 07:24 PM

Rickson stopped by the LA Lakers practice and beat all of them in one on one too.
Now are you impressed?

Pretty good post, except about Japan being a safe place to live. Those arts were developed when it wasn't a safe place. But you're correct in that the arts have been watered down for a couple hundred years in Japan and only a decade or so in Brazil.

Ronson · 06-30-2004, 09:13 PM

I'm with Thai Bri

pstevens please bring back Baywatch because you're great at bringing back old shite.

"So the next time you vist a karate,Muay Thai or judo gym, I'd adise you show some humility."

-I didn't know this forum was up for a lecture, damn us BJJ'ers have been bad. Is there some legion of "Cobra-Kai BJJ'ers" where you live that have done you wrong. I think I can speak for everyone when I say that most BJJ'ers are good, law-abiding, respectful people. We all don't think we are the shite. We show respect when we willingly enter a dojo and choose not to enter dojo's we don't respect (McDojo's like TKD, just kidding...am I?

)

And your thread is misleading - why don't you just call it, "...I'm sick of BJJ bluebelts and I subconsciously hate and suck at BJJ (7 years and you don't think you can kick some ass (if you had to that is) - that's sad) .

"In contrast, Brazil is has been a lawless country with much violence. Fighting in the streets was not unusual... But of recently, things have improved... Hence, BJJ has become more sport oriented."

- That statement proves to me just how flawed your thinking is and your inability to grasp logic (A = C, B = C, therefore A = B....uhhh NO). How in the Blue Hell do you get a decrease in street violoence and the increasing turn towards sport BJJ? Using the word "hence" doesn't leave you off the hook, nor make it correct.

Dude, how old are you? Because if you're over 18 yrs. old, I would not want to meet you because you need to check your head.

CKD · 07-01-2004, 09:51 AM

This is one of his few threads that do not trash bjj. Plus people are not posting about which is better BJJ or judo on this thread. I also was adjitated by the Judo vs BJJ threads since they are very simialar arts. There are some differences, mostly in setups, like judo has more setups standing up for throws and bjj has more groundwork setups for subs. BJJ has also the vale tudo aspect such as closing the distance against the striking opponent and delaing with a person striking at you from the guard. This was all part of judo but BJJ has made more advances in how to close the distance such as how to get a takedown on a dangerous striker with a good sprawl.

Jaguar Wong · 07-01-2004, 11:30 AM

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