Sambo and judo fighters

[CKD]

I have noticed Judo and Sambo fighters are getter more representation in mma. I found in on this page http://www.puroresushop.com/pro53 of judo based fighters in mma and they have some pretty big names. In the early days Oleg was the only one representing sambo but now we have the Russian Top Team. Each member is an expert in Combat Sambo. They have been garnering a lot of attention as well. Combat Sambo has a good balance of strikes and grappling and includes chokes. To get a blackbelt you have to beat 3 opponents at once! Should have figured Combat Sambo fighters would do good in mma.

[GrdStorm]

don't let them fool you, they cross train Jiu Jitsu

[CKD]

The Russian Top Team is all Sambo players and pretty much none of them have cross trained in bjj. Sambo fighters know about the same amount of groundwork as a bjj players do because the rules in Sambo allow for more groundwork. You will also notice good guardwork. Nowadays Sambo fighters are almost better suited fro mma because of there takedown skill and because most bjj schools have degenerated into only sport while sambo has kept most of it combat aspect. I am sure there are also judo fighters who have not crosstrained.

[MrPoopy]

GrdStorm, nobody is fooled. Judo and Sambo are both very good martial arts. Cross training in either isn't necessary if your goal is to learn ground work.

[CKD]

Not sure what you meant but Sambo is a great art for groundfighting and Judo is o.k. A lot of fighters do not train BJJ for groundwork a lot use sambo for it.

[mosin]

Unlike bjj, which is commercially promoted and exploited, sambo has been showcased by a few Russian fighters, in the UFC, and the defunct Rings. I remember a guy named Semenov easily beat a multi-titled Brazilian in the early UFC. The Russians seem content more on the fighting end of the sport than the commercial exploitation winning naturally brings.
I think Sambo covers more martial art than bjj, it was developed in Stalin's time, and we all know that what needs to be done at the time was done, regardless of cost. It is far more complete than bjj, it should as the Communist state wanted a system that would cover all "bases". Sport Sambo is what mostly is being promoted, athough now former elite members of the Armed Forces are teaching "combat" Sambo. There are techniques back in the Soviet era that are not taught to the general public, but only to Police personnel, specifically Internal Affairs or State Security operatives, presumably for torture.

[CKD]

Originally Posted by mosin

Unlike bjj, which is commercially promoted and exploited, sambo has been showcased by a few Russian fighters, in the UFC, and the defunct Rings. I remember a guy named Semenov easily beat a multi-titled Brazilian in the early UFC. The Russians seem content more on the fighting end of the sport than the commercial exploitation winning naturally brings.
I think Sambo covers more martial art than bjj, it was developed in Stalin's time, and we all know that what needs to be done at the time was done, regardless of cost. It is far more complete than bjj, it should as the Communist state wanted a system that would cover all "bases". Sport Sambo is what mostly is being promoted, athough now former elite members of the Armed Forces are teaching "combat" Sambo. There are techniques back in the Soviet era that are not taught to the general public, but only to Police personnel, specifically Internal Affairs or State Security operatives, presumably for torture.

Got to agree with all that. I am guessing you talking about this Russian guy?http://www.sherdog.com/fightfinder/f...fighterid=1870 He has several bjj people under his belt including Ricardo Almeida. I think you are very right on the comercializtion. Even though the only big success BJJ has had is Royces first UFC fights the claims of superiority still go on. After Royces matches there were mixed successes and failures. Many BJJ people got beat because of BJJ's lack in any other range besides ground. Even on the ground Sambo has BJJ beat. It has everything BJJ has as well as the lower body subs it doesn't. It also includes stuff like how to deal with weapons and multiples on the ground. In the other ranges it includes the best of other arts. In takedowns they have wrestling and judo and in striking Boxing and muay thai. On the ground the have old style judo(which is called bjj nowadays) and several wrestling systems. The creator based Sambo of the notion quote"It is imppossible to use only one art when self defencing." Thats shows why Sambo is electic in nature. I think Sambo makes a best base for people going into mma.

[wardancer]

Originally Posted by CKD

To get a blackbelt you have to beat 3 opponents at once! Should have figured Combat Sambo fighters would do good in mma.

Hi CKD,
In such 'Sambo graduation scenario, what is the level of the 3 opponents beaten at once?
Sambo BB jumping the new 'graduate' at once? Or lower rank participants?

How about the 'test'/''graduation' rules?
KO, points, time limits????
I need more info on that before I can value your 'described' Sambo BB graduation criteria.
Even if that the case, have you seen one done or just heard stories?
Are you falling for the good all TMA bullshit disguised in a new 'exotic' and 'cold' format'?

[CKD]

Originally Posted by wardancer

Hi CKD,
In such 'Sambo graduation scenario, what is the level of the 3 opponents beaten at once?
Sambo BB jumping the new 'graduate' at once? Or lower rank participants?

How about the 'test'/''graduation' rules?
KO, points, time limits????
I need more info on that before I can value your 'described' Sambo BB graduation criteria.
Even if that the case, have you seen one done or just heard stories?
Are you falling for the good all TMA bullshit disguised in a new 'exotic' and 'cold' format'?

Nowadays most schools do not do that test but just make you fight 3 people in a row. Or demonstrate "matching" skill against three opponents. In Russia a bit more schools do it than here. But because of the high possibility of injury and the difficulty of it not as much schools do it. I saw a person doing this in Belarus and it was not your tma bull.(I have been in martial arts two long too fall for that) The people were not hanging back or coming at him one at a time and they were attacking him hard. The person actually was able to beat with a standing choke but he got taken down and punched by the other one and then the instructor stopped the test. Sambo is not a tma b.s art. Practicioners have done well in the bjj tournaments and sub grappling tournaments. As well as the skilled sambo fighters like Fedor in mma. It has also been used successfuly in war time.

[wardancer]

Originally Posted by CKD

To get a blackbelt you have to beat 3 opponents at once! Should have figured Combat Sambo fighters would do good in mma.

You just confused me, you started the thread with the above quotation.
and concluded with your above 'input': "Nowadays most schools do not do that test but just make you fight 3 people in a row. Or demonstrate "matching" skill against three opponents. In Russia a bit more schools do it than here. But because of the high possibility of injury and the difficulty of it not as much schools do it."
What am I suppose to believe therefore?
Fighting 3 or 20 (people/ white belts) IN A ROW?? I do not care
Come on, the kyokushin Karate has the hundred man kumite challenge, and yes they do ONLY include BB as fighters?
One brown belt facing 3 BB at the same time is 'impossible'.
one brown belt facing 3 white at the same time is useless also.
Your knowledge of Sambo BB graduation just got me all interested some how?

[wardancer]

HI CKD,
How would you describe a standard Sambo training class?
What interest me the most is how they manage to train the striking and the wrestling parts?
So far, I could only imagine:
A striking class a la muy thai: lot of pads works using the techniques of the day.
The same would apply to the wrestling part: 1 or 2 wrestling techniques and its variations praticed on a training partner and then some rolling as the conclusion of the classes.
Do you guys mix it up when it comes to sparring: strikes and wrestling at once?
If so, what are the restrictions?
There must some good maybe unique training methods of training and sparring that make Sambo such a potential MA in MMA events.

[CKD]

Originally Posted by wardancer

HI CKD,
How would you describe a standard Sambo training class?
What interest me the most is how they manage to train the striking and the wrestling parts?
So far, I could only imagine:
A striking class a la muy thai: lot of pads works using the techniques of the day.
The same would apply to the wrestling part: 1 or 2 wrestling techniques and its variations praticed on a training partner and then some rolling as the conclusion of the classes.
Do you guys mix it up when it comes to sparring: strikes and wrestling at once?
If so, what are the restrictions?
There must some good maybe unique training methods of training and sparring that make Sambo such a potential MA in MMA events.

Typically there is the sport part which is pure grappling and the combat part in which you add strikes and also train some sd stuff. Depending on the school they might do an only striking sparring session. But most do an mma thing instead.

[CKD]

Originally Posted by wardancer

You just confused me, you started the thread with the above quotation.
and concluded with your above 'input': "Nowadays most schools do not do that test but just make you fight 3 people in a row. Or demonstrate "matching" skill against three opponents. In Russia a bit more schools do it than here. But because of the high possibility of injury and the difficulty of it not as much schools do it."
What am I suppose to believe therefore?
Fighting 3 or 20 (people/ white belts) IN A ROW?? I do not care
Come on, the kyokushin Karate has the hundred man kumite challenge, and yes they do ONLY include BB as fighters?
One brown belt facing 3 BB at the same time is 'impossible'.
one brown belt facing 3 white at the same time is useless also.
Your knowledge of Sambo BB graduation just got me all interested some how?

Like I said most schools do not do it nowadays it was an old soviet method that was commonly used. But it is nearly impossible so that is why it is seldom done nowadays.

[wardancer]

Originally Posted by CKD

Typically there is the sport part which is pure grappling and the combat part in which you add strikes and also train some sd stuff. Depending on the school they might do an only striking sparring session. But most do an mma thing instead.

When they do the MMA thing instead,
I am interested where do they draw the line in the casual/every classes.
In grappling, one sparring partner can just tap out when it needed.
In striking, usually some level of striking force is expected from your sparring partner in order to 'avoid' injuries. Muy Thai sparrring partners are known to wear some forms of protections in the everyday sparring classes in order to avoid injuries that would 'slow' down their attendance at training.
I am interested to hear where Sambo draws the line when it comes up to the MMA sparring at your everyday classes. e.g no hard punches, no striking combos, no deadly leg locks, no slamming of your opponents on the floor, no spear tackle (take-down by lifting your oponent legs higher than the head/shoulders level which could get the opponent neck to snap once he hit the floor head first), do you just tap out when your sparring partner got on a mount and keep punching you?
i do believe there is something about Sambo that makes it a succesfull MA in MMA events.
There must be something about the training that give it the edge. It always easy to theorize and mix all MA moves (like what Sambo seems to ne like to me) but incorporating all the techniques is just not the answer, finding a way to train them in a good (meaning you do not get injured every time) everyday sparring must be the secret of Sambo.
From experience, I trained no-gi with a punching partner (wearing gloves) and all I am allowed to use is grappling (BJJ) to defend myself. Now in case, when I get 'caught' in a position that I cannot defend myself (like I am at the buttom of a mount or the opponent has the hooks-in and is pounding from the back) I can tap-out.
This the safety 'net' I have.
Of course, nobody likes taping-out so that happen rarely.
But you must remenber having a striking partner (BJJ trained grapler) makes it very difficult to use BJJ techniques against (unlike versus an 'only' skilled stiker for e.g.)
Cheers,